Game Pace Sucks

[welchnome]

     I realize that zombies suck sometimes, but sometimes is not what I'm complaining about. I got on at about 9 AM, the zombies were well outnumbered and constantly spawn-camped. At 12 PM, the zombies were outnumbered and being spawn-camped. At 2 PM, zombies were STILL outnumbered, 2:1, and being spawned camped. Hey, Isn't that what the bots were for? To reinforce the zombie team when the game becomes heavily unbalanced? APPARENTLY NOT!  When zombies are outnumbered 2:1, for every map, for the entirety of the day, that really sucks. For both sides. When I ask mods and staff to add bots when this happens, they ignore me. They don't want to do anything to balance the game, they're on the human team and are making crazy profit; why would anything need to change? Their happy. I'm not saying intervention is needed every map, but please change the pace occasionally.

     No wonder our server pop is so damn low...NOBODY WANTS TO MAKE THE GAME FUN! EVERYBODY SEEMS TO LIKE HAVING 2:1 ODDS OF WINNING 24/7! Not only that, but they probably are afraid of getting an abuse report for doing anything. I know I'm stupid, getting demoted twice might lay some evidence to that; so I must obviously be missing some very important point, as to why the mods and staff alike choose to do nothing. Is it to preserve their precious positions? Are they afraid of "screwing up" like I did? I don't know about you, but I want balance, I want to have fun, I want everyone to have fun. Now nobody get up and do anything at once! I mean, Noxious Net didn't fall in a day...

 

Note that this is a rough, rough, rough draft of my thought. So do read comments before commenting.

Edited March 9, 2020 by welchnome

[Snowyamur]

TL;DR response

The main problem I'm seeing here from your complaint welchnome is how outnumbered the zombie team gets compared to the human players. You're saying there's a problem with the pacing in the game, but you aren't providing a potential solution to this problem.

The human team must always outnumber the zombies at the very beginning of the round because otherwise, they would be obliterated. Humans are significantly weaker compared to zombies, and they only have one life, where zombies have infinite lives. If you asked Moderators/Admin to add bots, and they didn't listen, then you have a reason to complain, but sometimes, we don't want to add bots because people in our ZS community end up being whiny children and start yelling at us for adding bots. We aren't risking our "precious positions" here; we're tired of the ZS community from barking at us to do something, we do just that, then they complain. I've seen this happen many times, and I have to ask:

"Is it shameful that middle-aged men and college students, who play on our server, and act like a bunch of kids?"

I think we all know the answer to that question. Moderators/Admin do what they can to keep the game fair and fun, but they are limited by what they can do, and the server itself. But if the ZS community continues barking at us for what we do, that's strong discouragement from doing what they ask if we suspect that as the likely response.

Operant conditioning is a powerful mental tool, which is what's displayed here.

To me, this is just another complaint from a player who can't see the larger issue here, because again, the focus is only at the Moderators/Admin. This might as well be an abuse report. The ZS community plays the game, and makes up the server population, not us. I would ask why the ZS community continues doing and acting the way it does now. Perhaps the solution comes from insight gained from that kind of conversation, but not this one.

 

Long-read response

1 hour ago, welchnome said:

Hey, Isn't that what the bots were for? To reinforce the zombie team when the game becomes heavily unbalanced?

Not always. The bots help give the zombie team a leg-up when it's ironically "dead", but they are primarily designed to push back the humans who choose to spawncamp with a relentless onslaught. Unlike human players, A.I. will never tire and never weaken, and their attacks are always accurate (unfortunately due to aimbot), which, compared to human players, makes them scarier. So the humans who choose to spawncamp will fall back when bots arrive. That's the "balance" technically, but it's used more as a deterrent from what I've been seeing.

 

1 hour ago, welchnome said:

Their happy. I'm not saying intervention is needed every map, but please change the pace occasionally.

You can go further by what you mean by "change the pace." We can't diagnose this problem you're seeing if you can't explain it clearly enough.

 

1 hour ago, welchnome said:

No wonder our server pop is so damn low...NOBODY WANTS TO MAKE THE GAME FUN! EVERYBODY SEEMS TO LIKE HAVING 2:1 ODDS OF WINNING 24/7!

No, our server population is low because our server crashes from time to time. People don't want to stick around on a server that crashes a lot, which is why Sunrust gains more players on their own server. Theirs doesn't crash, for reasons I don't know, but their server has a more dedicated, active, and experienced development team. We had an experienced development team, until we lost them because our ZS community drove them away, but we're slowly picking up pace again.

It's 2020, and I'm still amazed by how we haven't fixed our crashing problems, as well as the severe FPS drops while many players are online at a given time.

 

1 hour ago, welchnome said:

Not only that, but they probably are afraid of getting an abuse report for doing anything.

By mentioning this:

"When I ask mods and staff to add bots when this happens, they ignore me. They don't want to do anything to balance the game, they're on the human team and are making crazy profit; why would anything need to change?"

I think you had your mind initially set on that as the reason for Moderator inactivity. I doubt they're afraid of getting an abuse report from the players, as abuse reports in the past have been denied in their favor because those who make the reports have no evidence to back their claims. To us, that makes us ask them, "Why should we care about what they say if they can't even prove it?" It's only fair that way; we aren't going to believe someone unless they can prove what they're saying with evidence.

That being said, no, I don't think it's fear of an abuse report that there's inactivity, I just think they're too busy focusing on profit that it gets in the way of their responsibilities.

 

1 hour ago, welchnome said:

I want to have fun, I want everyone to have fun. Now nobody get up and do anything at once! I mean, Noxious Net didn't fall in a day...

You want people to have fun, but you state a problem and don't give a possible solution. How are we supposed to make anything out of this other than it being a complaint? Also, what does this have to do with Noxious Net? Our server is still getting high population counts, and unlike Nox, we aren't treating our devs poorly. I'm not at least; I don't know how others in Leadership are treating them, but compared to Nox, we're fairing better than they are considering we're still around, and they're gone after JetBoom dismantled it himself.

 

The main problem I'm seeing here from your complaint welchnome is how outnumbered the zombie team gets compared to the human players. You're saying there's a problem with the pacing in the game, but you aren't providing a potential solution to this problem.

The human team must always outnumber the zombies at the very beginning of the round because otherwise, they would be obliterated. Humans are significantly weaker compared to zombies, and they only have one life, where zombies have infinite lives. If you asked Moderators/Admin to add bots, and they didn't listen, then you have a reason to complain, but sometimes, we don't want to add bots because people in our ZS community end up being whiny children and start yelling at us for adding bots. We aren't risking our "precious positions" here; we're tired of the ZS community from barking at us to do something, we do just that, then they complain. I've seen this happen many times, and I have to ask:

"Is it shameful that middle-aged men and college students, who play on our server, and act like a bunch of kids?"

I think we all know the answer to that question. Moderators/Admin do what they can to keep the game fair and fun, but they are limited by what they can do, and the server itself. But if the ZS community continues barking at us for what we do, that's strong discouragement from doing what they ask if we suspect that as the likely response.

Operant conditioning is a powerful mental tool, which is what's displayed here.

To me, this is just another complaint from a player who can't see the larger issue here, because again, the focus is only at the Moderators/Admin. This might as well be an abuse report. The ZS community plays the game, and makes up the server population, not us. I would ask why the ZS community continues doing and acting the way it does now. Perhaps the solution comes from insight gained from that kind of conversation, but not this one.

[welchnome]

“Some people say, "Give the customers what they want." But that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do. I think Henry Ford once said, "If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have told me, 'A faster horse!'" People don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read things that are not yet on the page.”

― Steve Jobs

[McLovin]

I would like to say that anything mod+ does is considered abuse if its not in the players favoring. For example, I made a solo cade in a solo cading spot and i announced that I would close it off. Players raged and once I said ima add bots because zombies werent doing anything many players said this, "GREEDY ADMIN, ABUSING HIS POWERS TO EARN MORE POINTS, HE IS CHEATING, VOTEKICK THE ABUSER, DEMOTE HIM, SEE YOU ON FORUMS WITH MY ABUSE REPORT." Non stop nonsense and i didnt break any rules and when I stopped their votekicks that said (didnt let anyone into t6) i get crucified. Then when i gagged them for being toxic and spamming chat, I get hit with a "HE IS TRYING TO SILENT THE PEOPLE WHO SPEAK OUT". But actually spamming chat is against HG rules soooooo... haha. Mod + have a responsibility to make sure everyone in the game is having a better time. I will make sure to speak with the mod and staff about this spawncamping and bots. Ik how it can be boring being spawnkilled wave after wave.

[welchnome]

5 hours ago, Snowyamur said:

"Is it shameful that middle-aged men and college students, who play on our server, and act like a bunch of kids?"

I know I wrote this while I was irritated, that's why it's so top-heavy. The rate of writing is far less than the rate of thinking(I apologize for this). But, then again, if people don't have any problem, then what reason is there to write? Perhaps that may be the reason people are so "whiny".

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Snowyamur said:

 This might as well be an abuse report. 

2 hours ago, McLovin said:

I would like to say that anything mod+ does is considered abuse if its not in the players favoring.

7 hours ago, welchnome said:

They don't want to do anything to balance the game, they're on the human team and are making crazy profit; why would anything need to change

(delusion. Bitching in my mind for a few hours before I put it on paper) 

 

Please don't take this as me "calling abuse" (if I truly considered this abuse, why would I write this in the general forum?). 

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by welchnome

[welchnome]

 

6 hours ago, Snowyamur said:

You can go further by what you mean by "change the pace." We can't diagnose this problem you're seeing if you can't explain it clearly enough.

I believe that there should be an initiative in mod+ to analyze the situation of the game and adjust to change the pace.

 

Yes, bots are a crutch, but don't leave them there. Whenever I've seen bots used: they're added, and then left for the rest of the game.

When zombies are getting killed before they even remotely get close to the cade, that's when a crutch is needed. After that initial layer has been broken, or the humans have been pushed back; remove the bots. 

That's what I mean by changing the pace: when neither side is making any progress, boost one side to get things moving again!

 

I'm sorry for all the edits, this should be the final form. It was hard for me to describe what I was thinking.

If you commented to this reply, please consider revising.  

 

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by welchnome

[AceZeno]

I agree with Welchnome, whenever zombies get fucked constantly, bots have to be added. I also ask mods to add bots whenever z team pop is low and humans are mowing them down, but seems no one on the server cares because they're making points, it will probably never change

[welchnome]

@AceZeno, don't take my initial post as my final thought or statement. I always use my first post as a place of puking my opinions and ideas. So that means that the first post is 99.99% delusion and >1% fact/actual idea. At first it was a complaint, then a generation of suspicion of cause, then a generation of belief for the cause. 

That's something that I do need to change, because I P.O. everybody before my actual idea has been laid.

 

[Talbot]

Problem boils down to this: No incentive to play as a zombie.

I have tried my best to make zombie play style more entertained but I insist, the community wants what it wants, which is the opposite, I am outnumbered when I try to implement new mechanics that give the zombie team a little more leeway other than serve as point bags for the human team. But to no avail, I have stumbled across excuses such as:

 'I don't play a game called zombie survival to play as a zombie'

'it's ******* that zombies easily get rewards compared to humans'

And there's more to be added, I just can't be arsed to list all of them. I'm also being vain as to not point out who are these people. In regards to the mods or staff not adding bots, the times I have seen bots be required other than EU hours are when the server has a high population so you understand as a former moderator, that bots can't be added on high pop simply because they will hold player slots and the problem doesn't focus entirely on how the zombie team has less players, instead of how very human sided the server has become and players, demanding the zombies to be nerfed for simply getting killed by them. (Of course, I completely disagree with them, but I repeat, I am outnumbered)

In other words, this is on the zs community who insists on having humans buffed in every aspect, the latest community meeting notes demonstrate that, I am still doing my part on adjusting or nerfing what needs to be nerfed (buffing the opposite is not the correct move)  but the community itself wants to have what it wants. So I must ask.. Do you want to be part of the problem or part of the solution?

[Debiru]

Bots dont help too much unless you add a lot of them , the zteam depends more on what the bosses do

[Snowyamur]

3 hours ago, Talbot said:

No incentive to play as a zombie.

This was more prevalent before zombies were able to earn points. When zombies were capable of earning points, the incentive shifted, but it seems to have shifted back.

When a lot of updates are made for the human team, it makes sense why there's no incentive to play zombie. Why play a class that isn't being focused on? But if it's true that zombies were being buffed, and there were players complaining about the updates, coming up with the stupid excuses Talbot mentioned, then honestly, I would just say, "Well, f**kings screw them, then." Not everyone's going to like what we do, and it's better to have a few people love us than a bunch of people teeter-tottering between like and hate.

Look, it's reached that point where our ZS community clearly won't support the community that runs the server they play on. And it's been made clear that some of these players can't convey good, honest feedback in a way that's appropriate. I don't believe everyone in the world is evil, but there are those selfish mother-f**kers who only care about themselves, and I've seen it displayed on our server. Even if these people aren't like this outside the game, the Internet is no excuse to be a dirty piece of s**t.

 

4 hours ago, Talbot said:

but the community itself wants to have what it wants.

That's definitely the problem with the ZS community we have now. Selfish, inconsiderate, and only thankful when they get s**t for free for themselves to hoard.

[Snowyamur]

16 hours ago, welchnome said:

@AceZeno, don't take my initial post as my final thought or statement. I always use my first post as a place of puking my opinions and ideas. So that means that the first post is 99.99% delusion and >1% fact/actual idea. At first it was a complaint, then a generation of suspicion of cause, then a generation of belief for the cause. 

That's something that I do need to change, because I P.O. everybody before my actual idea has been laid.

 

You need to be careful when doing that @welchnome, because how you present the idea the first time matters more than how you present it the second time. First impressions matter, and if what you provide is something that sounds like a bunch of nonsense, or is very irrelevant to what's being discussed, we won't care.

I don't think your ideas were delusional. They were just frustrations you had for our server that you needed to express, but they weren't wrong. Pacing on our server sucks, and I needed more info. on that, which you provided. Our ZS community is utter garbage, which is no surprise to me because I made a thread on that a while ago.

People are welcome to come on our forums to vent as long as it's venting done appropriately and not directed against specific people.

[welchnome]

That's one reason why I both love and hate the internet: The good thing is that you can socially experiment and learn from mistakes without having your physical reputation soiled as easy. The bad thing is...you can separate the real world you from the virtual you(people like nick wilde).

Edited March 9, 2020 by welchnome

[Snowyamur]

24 minutes ago, welchnome said:

That's one reason why I both love and hate the internet: The good thing is that you can socially experiment and learn from mistakes without having your physical reputation soiled as easy. The bad thing is...you can separate the real world you from the virtual you(people like nick wilde).

That's why you learn to say, "Well f**k those people. I won't give a s**t about them anymore" and move on. It's harsh, but that's how the world is today. That's how humans are. We're the worst kind of being to ever exist on this planet, and the Internet, as well as our poor work ethics, are proof of this.

[welchnome]

 

 

4 hours ago, Talbot said:

In other words, this is on the zs community who insists on having humans buffed in every aspect, the latest community meeting notes demonstrate that, I am still doing my part on adjusting or nerfing what needs to be nerfed (buffing the opposite is not the correct move)  but the community itself wants to have what it wants.

What I'm addressing is that the pro's have a tendency to collect(CS:GO is a prime example of this). Using the newbie's ignorance of the map selection. (but then again, everybody whines when things are random). What I'm suggesting is that when the pop has at least 10 slots remaining, use bots to get the "frontline" moving. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Talbot said:

Do you want to be part of the problem or part of the solution?

I know that you're constantly under pressure, that's the consequence to your job. And I'm sorry that I'm pressuring you and the other volunteers of HG by being one of the people who complain. How do I know when is the time to shut up and when is the time to talk? I want to help, but I don't know how...or should I just stop helping.

Edited March 9, 2020 by welchnome

[Talbot]

Bots auto join when game has below 20 players, now, to your second question.. by simply letting developers work on what needs to be worked.