Zombies Being Faster

[Raptor75]

Why would you make zombies faster they are zombies they are supposed to be slow, what is the reason behind this change?

it's ridiculous how fast they run now this is not how you balance stuff.

 

Fix the real issue, increase grim price etc, remove/fix OP maps for humans these are the real issue when it comes to balance.

Please revert the zombie change and fix the real problem.

 

 

Increase grim reaper : 400 points from 250, now its risky to buy and less people will buy it which will balance things out.

 

 

Romove OP maps for humans :

 

zs_ancient_sand

zs_helipad_survival

zs_underpass_330

?

?

 

 

more to come, leave you opinion what you think and what should be done.

[Matt Marche]

it's great that zombies have a better chance now, sure, but this change causes so many adverse balance issues.

 

1. People are encouraged to stay inside on wave 1

What's wave 1 time for? Time to get additional zombies off people running around outside. However, only the best players dare run outside now, and they are the kind of players that won't die to these zombies anyway. What else is wave 1 for? Building barricades. Which leads to this:

 

2. Everyone sticks to one cade now

This is BAD on Hg. On the majority of maps the only reason barricades fall and games become interesting is because of humans splitting up into different barricades. With faster zombies no one wants to take a risk to cade a unique spot, and it's not like humans can buy boomstick when they try to do an obscure spot by themselves anymore. This is already observable through this morning's games. On Healthcare, everyone minus myself and raptor was in the main cade upstairs, pretty much. On Mall beta, everyone trying to cade a spot other than cyber got instantly wrecked by the fast zombies.

 

3. This update will take a while to show it's true colours

People are still going to be dumb and run around outside for now, and it might look good at first, "oh we have more zombies than before" but pretty soon everyone is going to catch on that running outside is too risky on most maps now, and we all know the noobs just follow the good players, meaning everyone will be inside...leaving no one for zombies to kill...leading to LESS zombies.

 

4. Maps that are very good for running are now easier for humans

Ancient Sand, Abandoned Mall. Mass of open space. As I said before bad players will all stay inside, and the good ones will risk it. On these maps these few humans can easily tear apart the starter zombies alone, and the starter zombies will have no one to kill.

 

As Raptor said, I 100% agree the main problem is A. The grim reaper and B. OP maps.

 

A. The "Grim Reaper" M249

 

This weapon is way, WAY underpriced. I thought it was by far the best before, but damage floaters showed me this weapon does double damge on it's last bullet; Averaging out the damage per bullet of this gun to around 37, higher than adonis, at twice the firing rate! This gun has twice the killing power of it's cousin only 25 points cheaper basically in exchange for lower accuracy. Grim's reload time is compensated for by it's clip size; By the time you must reload a grim adonis must be reloaded 5 times. Adonis is only better for accuracy. This weapon in the hands of someone who can hold down left click will just tear apart the best zombie hordes....for only 250 points? I would say grim is worth 400, or maybe even more. I would prefer it to be nerfed in strength, though.

 

B. OP maps

 

Before any of these updates such as boomsticks being locked out and the like, plenty of maps were fine. Farmhouse. Area 17. All the maps that weren't made with "aren't super long hallways fun" in mind played out completely fine, even with random people fruitlessly buying big guns immediately. The issue comes on maps like Ancient Sand where even with this zombie speed change zombies have absolutely no chance unless humans TRY to fuck eachother over.

 

 

Something else I neglected to mention was the global damage multiplier decrease. More balance being thrown off. Weapons are tiered with their power and profitability in mind, in order to upgrade to larger guns (obviously not relevant on HG) but changing how many points you earn off these guns nulls the lower tier guns even more. Only pistols and 200 point guns are reasonably possible to profit with now; Before you had to be skilled to profit with say a silencer, but now it's virtually impossible.

 

 

 

I genuinely believe that the opposition to this change is sound and valid, rather than motivated by people simply being opposed to change. The OP gun on wave 1 change was welcomed by the vast majority of regulars.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Matt Marche

[Fuzzy Dice]

Its nearly impossible to profit with any gun now, the damage multiplier really messed things up. I find myself spending more on ammo then what I am making.

Zombies just took down the most over powered cade in the most overpowered cading spot we have on the server right now... at wave 2,

Its nearly impossible to run around outside, as Matt said "people will stay in the cade which is bad for hg". This is soooooooo true, I am a good player in terms of running around and dodging zombies, but now it seems like I leave the cade and I get hit 3 times before I can even get away from 1 zombie. Oh and if you even look at a ghoul ... well... I can't get your free pistol ammo because I can't leave the cade.

[Papa John]

• Extra worth was removed.
  
• Ghoul movement speed changed from 140 to 150 compared to the normal human speed of 200
  
• Headcrab movement speed changed from 160 to 190 compared to the normal human speed of 200
  
• Regular zombies movement speed changed from 140 to 170 compared to the normal human speed of 200
  
• Zombie legs movement speed changed from 170 to 200 compared to the normal human speed of 200
  

The HUMAN damage multiplier (delta of human damage dealt to zombies) was changed from:

(ZombieDamageMultiplier) * (1 - DamageResistance(FearPower))

 

to this:

(ZombieDamageMultiplier - (NUMBER_OF_HUMANS * 0.01)) * (1 - DamageResistance(FearPower))

 

Damage Resistance in this case is the percentage shown in the fear meter multiplied by 0.25.

 

With the idea being the more humans there are, the less damage zombies will take. As that number decreases the affect will diminish.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Papa John

[Fuzzy Dice]

So what you are saying is, we need to get other humans killed so we can make a profit? Survival of the fittest hunger games style, cade vs cade warfare? If this is going to happen then we need to know how much we are doing to zombies at all times, fix the damage floaters.

Also this sounds good on paper, but when applied to the server it changes ALOT.

[Papa John]

Here is the problem we are facing, if we don't change anything we have people complain that there are no updates and the server is too vanilla to keep their interests. On the other hand if we do change something it is destroying the server and we get asked why things weren't left the way they were before. So what everyone needs to understand is that change is a good thing, its a moving target that we will get closer to hitting the more and more we refine our "aim". Now we appreciate input on this process but telling us it sucks and is killing the server population doesn't help in any way, more constructive measures would be stating not just the flaws of the system but how it could be improved.

 

For example, fact of the matter is early waves make starting zombies spawn into a kill zone. Now regardless of what map it is, how good the zombie spawns are, or how many poor caders there are on the human team, it doesn't change the fact that zombies are effectively walking into a wall of bullets. Now I assume all humans enjoy, what is effectively shooting fish in a barrel, but we are trying to mix up the gameplay alittle and have the first few waves feel just as intense and scary as the last few ways with tons of zombies. The way to do this without actually having more zombies is to make the few zombies there are more stronger to the point where humans are able to fight them back but at the same time it is actually a fight (instead of just fire in their general direction and mow them down). I am not opposed to people making a profit but if you make a profit I want you to actually earn that profit instead of just capitalizing on the narrow hallways zombies often have to slowly walk down to get to you.

 

The tl;dr is this, change is coming whether you like it or not. You can either complain about it the entire time, or you can help make it. The choice is your own.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Papa John

[Magic]

Papa John basically answered everything above, but to answer the questions about of the OP maps (some of which you listed) are planned to be removed, I would just like to find replacements for them before I have them removed. I held an OPEN meeting, and got the basic suggestion: CHANGE, and yet we get this common response with "No we don't want change no more". No while this update may have not been good, you guys need to take into account that we are trying our very best to balance the game mode and make it a better server for both teams and the player himself.

[Kigen]

Removed speed modifications.

Removed the damage reduction for now.

Increase grim and boomstick price.

Removed some maps that were too lopsided for humans.

[Crazyfilms5000]

Here is the problem we are facing, if we don't change anything we have people complain that there are no updates and the server is too vanilla to keep their interests. On the other hand if we do change something it is destroying the server and we get asked why things weren't left the way they were before. So what everyone needs to understand is that change is a good thing

 

Okay no.

 

Its a difference between changing a few numbers in the code and calling it "updating" thus breaking the gamemode making it a shadow of what it was intended to be as opposed to actually adding something to the game itself (i.e. new traits, melees, maybe custom zombies) that actually compliment the gamemode and make it feel fresh. People are complaining because you rigged the gamemode and called it "updating". If you just added some melees, traits, or a few guns and maps, I can guarantee you would not be facing this much backlash. Updates add something fresh, you added nothing but a minor inconvenience to seasoned players.

 

However Kigen fixed it and actually listened to what the players had to say, so good look there.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Crazyfilms5000

[Papa John]

Okay no.

 

Its a difference between changing a few numbers in the code and calling it "updating" thus breaking the gamemode making it a shadow of what it was intended to be as opposed to actually adding something to the game itself (i.e. new traits, melees, maybe custom zombies) that actually compliment the gamemode and make it feel fresh. People are complaining because you rigged the gamemode and called it "updating". If you just added some melees, traits, or a few guns and maps, I can guarantee you would not be facing this much backlash. Updates add something fresh, you added nothing but a minor inconvenience to seasoned players.

 

However Kigen fixed it and actually listened to what the players had to say, so good look there.

 

Its actually mildly hilarious I am getting the heat for this even though I didn't actually change anything but sure I'll bite. Did it work out exactly as Kigen had planned, no, but it was a step in the right direction. ZS is highly asymmetrical and was balanced on the premise that humans would have to obtain points over time in order to spend points on higher tier weapons, when you add point saving that tips the balance in favor of the humans because now they have near instant access to the entire arsenal of weapons they were suppose to buy over the course of several waves. So in "updating" the gamemode by "changing a few numbers" you can drastically affect the way the game plays out rather then simply adding new traits, melee weapons, or new zombies (which is effectively just DLC). While you are content to stay with ZS the way it is, we are looking for the next version ZS or ZS 2 if you will. Simple fact of the matter is people stayed with the server not because of our weapons, our zombies, or our traits but because we took initiative to enable player's points to save into their next session. This is the natural evolution of that initiative, which people will not like at first (and that is too be expected) but overtime will come to understand it makes the gamemode more enjoyable to play.

 

Now that isn't to say things like new traits, zombies, and weapons aren't important, because they are, however they are a flash in the pan. Either they work and everyone become complacent with them to the point where its nothing new (in the case of grims) or they are entirely ignored and almost no one uses them (in the case of about half the weapons on zs). So to me its a clear choice, balance the gamemode first, give everyone (both humans and zombies) something they don't feel is entirely one sided, and then, and only then, start adding DLC like extra zombies or weapons.

 

I don't entirely blame you by the way, staying with what you know and like is to be expected. I want to go outside that box of what is expected but change has to start somewhere. And building on an unstable foundation isn't the way to get there.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Papa John

[Irontaco]

doing 13 damage with a glock on body shots on normal zombies because im close to bonemesh fucking sucks. i wonder how worse it is with worth weapons.

[Crazyfilms5000]

doing 13 damage with a glock on body shots on normal zombies because im close to bonemesh fucking sucks. i wonder how worse it is with worth weapons.

Worth menus weapons are rendered useless now. I dumped a whole clip from an Owens pistol into a default zombie's head and it didn't even flinch. Usually I can drop 2 or 3 zombies before I have to retreat with an Owens. Edited July 8, 2014 by Crazyfilms5000

[Asuba]

yikes, I've yet to try out anything that's changed. was floating damage text added? I've been wanting that on here for a long time.