Zombie Discussion: The Chem Zombie

[Weeman]

So I've noticed that come unlock of chem zombie everyone starts spam spawning them to which veterans will decree that they are absolute shit.

 

 

So let's talk about possible buffs to make them slightly more useful so there aren't 30 poison zombies piling up instead. What would you do to make them a better pick?

[The Gaming Limit]

For starters health, if they shoot you 2 times we die, the distance/ radiance of the explosions are to small and not every powerful, if we have around 20 players on ( mainly in my morning) then no one shoots the chem zombies as you have to kill them to take damage towards the Cade. Also I stick to poison zombies as they do more damage and I can attack more then once. If their is anything I have missed please add.

[Weeman]

I don't know if I'd buff their health because you want to die but it appears their damage output isn't what it should be if not completely broken since it's like you said: easier to just pick poison zombie and do more damage.

[The Gaming Limit]

I'm just saying if you still buffed the chem zombie in whatever way I still think it will be useless, however their no need nerfing the poison to fit in with this as the poison has a primary and secondary so I would add a secondary to the chem to make it do something else.

[DigitalPrintz]

The biggest problem we had with the chem zombies was them doing a ridiculous amount of damage before. 40 chem zombies doing, say, 10 damage to every prop they explode on means that every 15 seconds, 400 damage to EVERY prop they can reach in a cade is gone. I think they could be moved to a lower unlock table on the board, such as chem -> poison -> zombine instead of poison before chem, so that the newer players stop thinking that chem is such an overpowered class, while it isn't, since it is closer to starter classes.

Edited October 28, 2015 by DigitalPrintz

[TheAtrocity]

We had intro'd chemical zombies before, and they tore down a cade totalling 8,800 HP in under 1 minute.

 

To be completely honest, they've been obsolete ever since the debut of zombine who has both the functions of a poison zombie (albeit lower melee damage) with chemical zombie, but far stronger and larger blast radius.

Edited October 28, 2015 by TheAtrocity

[Weeman]

The biggest problem we had with the chem zombies was them doing a ridiculous amount of damage before. 40 chem zombies doing, say, 10 damage to every prop they explode on means that every 15 seconds, 400 damage to EVERY prop they can reach in a cade is gone. I think they could be moved to a lower unlock table on the board, such as chem -> poison -> zombine instead of poison before chem, so that the newer players stop thinking that chem is such an overpowered class, while it isn't, since it is closer to starter classes.

 

I actually like this idea a lot. It does seem they are in a misplaced tier, what do others think of just unlocking them earlier than poison?

[KitBallard]

In my Opinion we should remove the Chem Zombie,since the Zombine got literally replaced by it.

[TheAtrocity]

I actually like this idea a lot. It does seem they are in a misplaced tier, what do others think of just unlocking them earlier than poison?

 

YAS

 

[haydenmorrison]

The chem zombie class is showing its best "potential" and desired effect as it is configured today

A lot of people choose this class because, as said above, they look to be powerful, so every game we have a lot of them and depending on the cade configuration they can be helpful

 

If you move its order in the zombie choice menu, there will be a significant loss of "interest" from the players

And as a result you will be able to count chems at the midle/end of the game on one hand fingers, thus making them totally useless

 

They need to be modified. The exploding body is a good feature but for now that's the only thing they are able to do, and only when shot

When you left-click or right-click, nothing happens they can't even attack

So maybe there is something to do here : a simple new feature justifying their choice

 

Random idea :

Change their order in the zombie choice menu, unlock them with the fast zombies

When you left-click and keep pressing on the button of your mouse, you are running (1.5x or 1.8x the normal speed)

When you release left-click, you explode

Maybe increase the dammages to the humans a bit so they produce a bit more "fear" when close to you

I think this is an amazing idea and should for sure do something like this with the chem

[Weeman]

Adding a new zombie would be significantly more difficult though of course we'd like to add more classes as time goes on. The current issue I'd like to address is the class of chem as a whole, I don't want to see it removed completely but rather all zombies have a purpose as the gamemode changes. I dislike intentional creations being removed completely since at one point someone worked hard on the concept, design, and implementation of it so to remove it completely undoes their work.

 

 

So far I'm getting a consensus that the tier change would be the best course of action, I'll keep the thread open for awhile to get some more feedback.

[Eric Sakata]

Chems were okay in the past but know with the zombine they are pretty much a underpowered class. A cool buff to make them have a good side against zombines would be increasing the radius from the explosion the reason is to block people from repairing it would have an interesting concept with low damage but being annoying and destructive in big waves

[A Tax on Tyson]

I'm with the others in that I think the Chem should just be removed all together. It's basically a poor man's Zombine.

 

On a side note, I also personally think it looks really bad aesthetically. It's basically a poison zombie with a gas particle effect stuck on. I know it's a mod of a mod but it looks really tacky and unprofessional.

Edited October 29, 2015 by A Tax on Tyson

[Harle]

I believe the original idea behind why the chemical zombie was added was to take out smaller barricades in a shorter period of time such as solo barricaders or small groups of people camping together.

 

I do agree that it's pretty much pointless due to it being only 100 health but I disagree that it requires a buff as the problem doesn’t lie on the class itself but rather how it is being introduced into the game.

 

One of the few issues that I've noticed is that Chemical Zombies are only unlocked after wave 5.

Wave 5 is when the tier 5 weapons are being unlocked also known as the “big gunsâ€

A few bullets from a grim or a single shot from a destroyer would kill Chemical Zombies instantly without even giving it a chance to get near the barricade.

 

Chemical zombies are similar to zombines based on their attack styles. Both are heavy reliant on zombie stacks and do massive damage over a period of time.

They have an area of effect damage (which is really good) even though I don’t often use it. Why? Refer to my third point.

 

Buffing the chemical zombies would only lead to unhappiness of players due to the mass amount of damages it is bound to produce in such a short period of time hence, the nerf of damage taking place a while back.

 

Removing it all together and introducing just seems unnecessary to me. It's a good zombie class, however it just needs to be implemented correctly.

There’s no point rushing and introducing new ideas when you can simply do quick and easy changes which could really impact the game there on after.

 

My suggestion would just be switching it over to wave 4 instead of 5 where the firepower of humans are still manageable from then.

I don't see a reason why it should take the place of the poison zombies when a mix of both could cause some potential damage to barricades in the early game before the big guns come out. You have a poison zombie tanking several bullets, stalling time for chemical zombies to do a reasonable amount of damage to barricades, great combo.

 

Ty Face, my bad for any other mistakes.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Harle

[Weeman]

Yea the chem was bumped down in the tier list, hopefully we can get feedback on how it is seen now. Given that it's damage is next to nothing I see it being used to clear out those pesky small 3-4 people barricades that sometimes pop up so by wave 6 people can zombine the bigger cade if they choose.

[BraillingLogic]

I still wanna see the Chem zombie removed or replaced, in concept, it's a brilliant idea, a zombie that blows up and damages everything, but in practice, it doesn't stand a chance against competent barricades, simply for the fact that it will never reach it to do any damage. They simply have too little hp, and do too little damage to be considered a threat. If you guys still want to keep the idea of an "explosive" zombie, I would probably recommend an explosive headcrab. Something along the lines of detonating like a chem zombie on death, or with the ability to explode on choice, or maybe even leak poison on melee, like the ghoul. Because 9/10 times, if a zombie is being melee'd, it's probably the one headcrab that managed to leak through the cade.

Edited November 4, 2015 by BraillingLogic

[BraillingLogic]

It may seem that way when you don't know how to use zombies, but it's rather far from the truth. Each zombie is specialized for different types of cades and scenarios depending on the wave. The Chemical Zombie is more powerful than you think. It can take down almost any cade that that you throw at it; that is if the cade fit's the Chem's needs. The Chemical has low health, but it is able to overcome this obstacle if used for the right type of cade. The cades perfect for these zombies are the ones that have no line of sight for the zombies once they reach the props of the cade. This means that the humans can not shoot the zombie before they reach their cade, and once they do it's too late because the damage is done. Now, the zombie does have low damage, but it's actually alot. The damage will reach any prop in it's radius of explosion, and if there are enough Chem Zombies, then the cade will certainly fall. Think of it like this; Each Chem does 6 damage to any prop it touches. It may seem small but if you have 40 Chem Zombies, then you have 40 Chems doing 240 damage a second to EVERY prop in their radius. This is better than going any other zombie available at the time, because normal zombies can only damage a single prop that they aim at. The Chem can damage EVERY prop around it. This means that a door cade that has 10 doors is constantly losing this much hp every few seconds on every door. This is an important part everybody misses when it comes to the Chem. Though it may seem this powerful, there's a catch. They will be able to do this much damage ONLY if they are able to make it to the cade without being shot. This will work on cades that are either poorly built, or is just not optimized to it's surroundings. The Chemical Zombie has its merits and downfalls, but that does not mean you have to remove it entirely.

 

Yes, but that's just it - the math sounds very nice (240 dmg/sec), but after taking in realistic conditions (Trollspawn, time it takes to walk from spawn, Sledge/Impaler/Boomstick Knockback, the fact that 50% of Zombie team will still be normals at Wave 4, the fact that they don't like to stack, etc.) it doesn't seem very effective in practice. If it's a 10-doorcade, then it will likely last until Wave 6, when Zombines will potentially devastate it. Also, Poison HCs will be much more effective pushing repairers away from doors, as well as dazing shooters. And if a stack manages to happen on Zombie team, a Bloated or Poison zombie rush will be more effective as well, since each zombie is soaking the damage for other zombies, as well as focusing down a single prop (with the potential of doing much more damage, depending on how many impalers are in play), rather than doing 200 dmg to each prop, and then taking another 1.5 minutes to arrange another stack ( which can be easily taken down by a single impaler). But this is pretty much my opinion. The thing is on HG ZS, everyone sticks to a single cading location on every map, which is usually caded by competent cader (Lumpy,Jolly, HG member, etc.) Chems will only see a great amount of effectiveness on kinda meh maps, like Alex_G_Motel, simply for the conditions you have described (LOSight), smaller cades (<10 people), cades with lots of props (Bootcade, Flowercade), or when the human team is outnumbered (but by then it's gg). But, part of the zeal I have for wanting Chems removed, is kinda from coming back to HG from not playing so long, and then seeing Chems and saying to myself,"Oh boy! A new zombie!", and then learning that it's pretty much ineffective in many situations. So, yeah. I just want to see a new zombie that has more viability and will actually have a playstyle that's effective and fun, rather than going 'tryhard' and actually coordinating and convincing an entire team that the Chem is actually a good zombie.

[thebong1]

the code of chemzombies is absolut shit. i have seen it and it is the worst aproch ive ever seen. here is how to fix it.

1) upon explosion it does damage based off of distance to all props with a maximum of 20.

2) same as 1 but does 1/5th the damage to humans.

3) death by melee does not detonate them.

 

now we are talking about HG here so any segestions end up here

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/mysims/images/d/d5/Trashcan.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090313211444

[Weeman]

I like the death by melee does not detonate them idea but I'd rather that damage apply to humans instead of the barricades. Or else we aren't going to see cades go past the wave they unlock.