Rule Adjustment

[SenpaiiPlz]

"You are allowed to team kill on kill maps. When it comes to course maps you may only kill people with grenades."
In my opinion, this rule should be reevaluated, in the sense of smoke grenades. There are many course maps where someone can drop a smoke and delay map progress by blocking the view of other players. Whether it be in a maze like mg_adev, the rotating cobblestone after the TNT maze on mg_minecraft_course, or anywhere else that blocks view of a deadly area. It forces players to either sit around and wait for the smoke to disperse, or risk going through it and dying because they can't see. This is a form of griefing and I'm honestly unsure why it's allowed. Especially in the TNT maze of minecraft_course. If someone is in the maze, don't be impatient/rude and throw your smoke to blow it up with someone in it. Wait 5 seconds for them to get through it, then throw it. Intentionally killing people is toxic and has made people leave the server before, including myself. Nobody wants to progress in the map just to be killed by some troll with a smoke. It's not fun and I would think as a community we would want our players to enjoy their experience on our servers. Not intentionally trolling our players. If it's between friends just messing around, that's one thing. But when there are people on the server that you don't know, or that specifically don't want to deal with the toxicity? Don't do it.
Obviously I can't make anyone change this rule to prevent griefing, but I would genuinely like to discuss it. It's detrimental to our players and the server. Is that really worth a couple of trolls getting their thrills? Is it really necessary to allow using smokes to intentionally delay the map/kill players? If that's the case, why can't I intentionally slay people just for the fun of it? It's essentially the same thing. Intentionally killing someone is intentionally killing someone. Yet it's allowed with nades but not !slay. I get that it's a bit of an ignorant comparison, but it works. The point is the same. The result is the same. People are dying unwillingly because of some other person stroking their ego. I want to reiterate that this isn't just about minecraft_course and that there are spots in pretty much every map that can be smoked and cause delay/death. I also want to specify that I am not by any means requesting smokes be taken out, but to simply adjust the rule to where it's not allowed to use them to grief other players.

Please discuss seriously. I am not pointing fingers in this post. I am not looking to cause drama. I am looking to maturely discuss a rule. Thank you.

[IronClawZ]

To clarify a little bit on this matter, I pick and choose which maps have the !smoke config set to on and off. 

I currently have !smoke turned ON for minecraft course because the TNT trap is obnoxious & sometimes a little buggy (you can land not on the tnt & it will explode as if you clipped it).

This is for ease of life. I enabled this to allow people to bypass this trap by using a smoke grenade to trigger the explosion. In no way should this impact you. You can take 5 seconds out of your course map to wait for the smoke to blow it up, and just continue on. 

If they use smokes on minecraft to intentionally block traps (the rotating pillars, an entrance, or w/e) feel free to call them out & or record it if you really feel like they're intentionally trolling.
(No, throwing one smoke isn't trolling. MG is about having fun, and to be quite frank, trolling eachother in MG is fun. 10 of us were all playing around and killing eachother and we were all having a blast.)

I haven't received this complaint from any other player in MG, so this hasn't even been on my mind until now. Honestly, to me dying in MG is a part of the game.  

With that being said, I'm not sure why adev would have smoke on, but I can turn it off if it's indeed on. I'm pretty sure I only put !smoke on for Minecraft. 

Also, not sure why you compared !smoke to !slay lol. If someone's trying to kill you with the tnt, just blow it up yourself. There's an easy fix to this problem, and it seems like it's not being considered.

[SenpaiiPlz]

Again, I'm not asking for smoke to be removed. Just for people to stop griefing with it, on any map. Yes, you can blow up the TNT with a smoke. No, not everyone who joins the server knows that. So if someone is running through the maze, LET THEM. It's really extremely simple. Just as waiting a few seconds to let a smoke blow up the TNT doesn't affect gameplay, neither does waiting a few seconds for someone to go through it. Kinda serves my point.

Again, friends killing eachother to mess around is completely different than doing it to people who aren't your friends, or simply don't want to deal with it. Yes, minigame maps are about dying. Course maps are about completing the course, not dying. Yes, you die on course maps. But you should die to them due to natural causes, like failing. Not due to other players intentionally fucking with you. Just because you and your friends have fun doing it to eachother doesn't mean every other player is going to enjoy it. Just like you can banter with your friends and be more harsh than you would be with someone else. It's the same respect.

No, !smoke is not on for adev. But there is a smoke grenade at the end of the maze that is often thrown onto the maze by whoever completes it first. Or they save the grenade for a different spot in the map. 
 

Quote

Also, not sure why you compared !smoke to !slay lol. If someone's trying to kill you with the tnt, just blow it up yourself. There's an easy fix to this problem, and it seems like it's not being considered.

Because it's essentially the same thing. You are intentionally killing people. Refer back to my first comment regarding the TNT maze. Not to mention this isn't all about the TNT. It's about smokes in general being used to grief players. It often causes deaths. Again, I already said I realize comparing it to !slay is an ignorant statement it was just an example and in no way do I actually believe that should be allowed. So not sure why you brought up me comparing it to that.

[Scorch]

2 hours ago, IronClawZ said:

You can take 5 seconds out of your course map to wait for the smoke to blow it up, and just continue on. 

This is literally the MG meta, if you wanna do it legit then you should know that its gonna happen. For new players I can understand but why else would !smoke be on minecraft course.

2 hours ago, SenpaiiPlz said:

Because it's essentially the same thing. You are intentionally killing people

Also !slay is used for admin purposes, there's a difference between killing someone with a smoke + TNT and then killing someone because they broke a rule. And yes I saw you talk about !slay isn't the best example but there isn't much else to compare it to.

In my opinion, why else would we have grenades on MG if it weren't to have fun/use it to do certain maps easier. And if smokes are the problem like for mg_adev, then you can just, wait for the smoke.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Scorch

[SenpaiiPlz]

7 minutes ago, Scorch said:

In my opinion, why else would we have grenades on MG if it weren't to have fun/use it to do certain maps easier. And if smokes are the problem like for mg_adev, then you can just, wait for the smoke.

"to do certain maps easier"
Yeah, again I am not saying remove them.
"And if smokes are the problem, then you can just, wait for the smoke"
So delaying is not allowed, but throwing a smoke that delays other players is? Hmm 

Or, OR, people could just not be toxic by throwing a smoke where it disrupts peoples game play. Either hold onto it, use it as it is intended (blowing up TNT), or throw it somewhere out of the way. This is especially going to become an issue if timers get added to the server. Are we still going to allow people to throw smokes in people's ways while they are trying to speed run? Cuz then it will indeed be affecting game play 

[Scorch]

8 minutes ago, SenpaiiPlz said:

Yeah, again I am not saying remove them

First: I didn't say and you didn't say you wanted to remove them, I was just pointing out why Smokes were used,

11 minutes ago, SenpaiiPlz said:

"And if smokes are the problem, then you can just, wait for the smoke"

Its forced delaying, someone throws a smoke and forces people to wait, something like that is just a part of MG.

 

17 minutes ago, SenpaiiPlz said:

people could just not be toxic by throwing a smoke where it disrupts peoples game play

And Like Iron said, I have heard literally No One but you talk about how smokes disrupts game play, I have even talked to a lot of the people who regularly play MG and they don't complain about it.

[IronClawZ]

Still not sure why we're discussing this. The only person to complain about this so far has been you. Everyone else accepts the fact that people are going to intentionally try and blow people up on TNT maze in minecraft because it's funny. 

We also forgot to mention that I have autorespawn turned on for minecraft, meaning, if you make it to the tnt maze in a normal amount of time and get blown up, it will be around ~15 seconds, which will respawn you and you can go at it again.

As for the delaying, I don't think I have ever seen someone intentionally delay a map to the point to where I've had to slay them. If someone throws a smoke, just wait it out? Like we won't punish you for not jumping into death lmao.

In response to the speedrun timer- no speedrun will ever be the same. The whole point of adding it was to have more features that make course maps appealing, not to make it a sweat fest of who can complete it the fastest as there will likely be no reward- just bragging rights. 

 

[SenpaiiPlz]

3 minutes ago, Scorch said:

And Like Iron said, I have heard literally No One but you talk about how smokes disrupts game play, I have even talked to a lot of the people who regularly play MG and they don't complain about it.

I've literally seen people leave because of it. So

1 minute ago, Bubbles said:

i got 1 thing to say and im not opening this topic again  Cry M O R E

This is exactly the type of thing I was talking about by saying, "I am looking to maturely discuss a rule". Grow up kid. Great look for a veteran of the community 

[IronClawZ]

Sigh. I'm going to lock this now because I don't feel like watching an argument unfold over this shit.

At the end of the day MG is MG. People will blow up the TNT with smokes and use it to mess with people.

As long as its not excessive it's fine. If you have a serious problem with it, record multiple instances of it and send it to me. 

This discussion is now locked.