United States' Debt

[Chillin]

I kept wondering How does America keep growing in debt? Now I finally realize Obama's listening to a 14 year old!

ENTER: Greece

 

In all fairness, Obama's policies will only cause ~1.44 trillion in debt even with projections all the way until 2017 included.

 

It's Bush's wars and policies that caused the real damage.

 

Lol@lowering taxes during war time.

[Guest The_Monkey]

Let me tell you why your are wrong, cause you are way off fucking base.

 

There is such a thing as good government debt. When the government spends money on worthwhile projects, it increases capital through research. This capital is then used to essentially raise our standards of living.

 

So, here is what you need to understand. It is terrible to measure the debt as a monetary figure. Instead, it is measured as a % of GDP. That is the best way to gauge Sovereign debt.

 

Right now, we are a little over 80% of GDP. This means we have left the comfort zone of between 20% and 70%. The stupid shit on TV about the debt crisis was fucking grand standing for political gain. Truth in the matter is that it is impossible for the government to default.

 

I want to throw something out here that may blow your goddamn mind. The U.S. has had a debt this high before. IT HAPPENED DURING WORLD WAR II. We had over 100% of GDP in debt. Wars cost money. Tax breaks cost money. During WWII, Americans sacrificed in order to help positively effect our ability to win the war. Investing in war does not increase technology, and as such, the money spent will not get us any real gain.

 

So, lets explain why the Keynesian theory of spending your way out of debt might still be possible (if you aren't a Keynesian you are a Classical). If oru GDP increases more than our debt, we will effectively reducing our amount of debt. Is your mind blown yet?

 

The Keynesian way of handling a recession is to increase long term aggregate supply, which makes it cheaper for American's to purchase things, which then spur the economy.

 

The Classicals want to let the economy handle itself; zero government intervention. This is bad, but we'll get to that.

 

In a world with a globalized market, it would be impossible to not have government intervention. The government helps to create and enforce laws in order to keep negative impacts on the economy in check. Most people refer to this as REGULATION. De-regulating industries can be good, and can be bad. De-regulation must be looked at on a case by case basis. For instance, de-regulating the stock market is detrimental to American living standards. If the government de-regulates some of the regulation in place, investors might take more risk, which will cause a recession.

 

I'm done rambling. I don't give a shit to read through what I typed in order to make it flow in a cohesive manner. So, just know that you are a tard because you don't know the whole story.

[Guest The_Monkey]

Double post time.

 

You said why don't we print money to get out of debt.

 

Well, that is one monetary policy that can be used by the Fed's. Right now, they have been using a plan called Quantitative Easing. Essentially they buy toxic assets in order to increase the amount of dollars in economy. Some say this is a terrible idea, in fact most everyone thinks it is a bad idea. However, it is one of the tools of last resort.

 

The U.S. dollar is the worlds reserve currency. The demand for the dollar is what gives the dollar worth. If there is more demand for the dollar, the dollar will grow in value which makes our exports more expensive, but increase our purchasing power. Remember that Oil is traded in U.S. dollars. That is very important to keep in mind when being a whiny bitch about the economy.

[Soccercrazy]

Let me tell you why your are wrong, cause you are way off fucking base.

 

There is such a thing as good government debt. When the government spends money on worthwhile projects, it increases capital through research. This capital is then used to essentially raise our standards of living.

 

So, here is what you need to understand. It is terrible to measure the debt as a monetary figure. Instead, it is measured as a % of GDP. That is the best way to gauge Sovereign debt.

 

Right now, we are a little over 80% of GDP. This means we have left the comfort zone of between 20% and 70%. The stupid shit on TV about the debt crisis was fucking grand standing for political gain. Truth in the matter is that it is impossible for the government to default.

 

I want to throw something out here that may blow your goddamn mind. The U.S. has had a debt this high before. IT HAPPENED DURING WORLD WAR II. We had over 100% of GDP in debt. Wars cost money. Tax breaks cost money. During WWII, Americans sacrificed in order to help positively effect our ability to win the war. Investing in war does not increase technology, and as such, the money spent will not get us any real gain.

 

So, lets explain why the Keynesian theory of spending your way out of debt might still be possible (if you aren't a Keynesian you are a Classical). If oru GDP increases more than our debt, we will effectively reducing our amount of debt. Is your mind blown yet?

 

The Keynesian way of handling a recession is to increase long term aggregate supply, which makes it cheaper for American's to purchase things, which then spur the economy.

 

The Classicals want to let the economy handle itself; zero government intervention. This is bad, but we'll get to that.

 

In a world with a globalized market, it would be impossible to not have government intervention. The government helps to create and enforce laws in order to keep negative impacts on the economy in check. Most people refer to this as REGULATION. De-regulating industries can be good, and can be bad. De-regulation must be looked at on a case by case basis. For instance, de-regulating the stock market is detrimental to American living standards. If the government de-regulates some of the regulation in place, investors might take more risk, which will cause a recession.

 

I'm done rambling. I don't give a shit to read through what I typed in order to make it flow in a cohesive manner. So, just know that you are a tard because you don't know the whole story.

 

Mind fucking blown.

[Mark]

The US debt "crisis" won't just effect them, it also effects surrounding countries like Canada (eh). If you live near the border you probably would have gone shopping across the border because of your increased dollar. If the US prints more money then that dollar goes down and so do my Canadian mounty bobble head sales, DUN PRINT MONEY PLEASE!

[LazaHorse]

Am I still allowed to quote The_Monkey in my sig even if his post is a few pages long. I feel blessed to be around intelligence like this.

[Guest The_Monkey]

The US debt "crisis" won't just effect them, it also effects surrounding countries like Canada (eh). If you live near the border you probably would have gone shopping across the border because of your increased dollar. If the US prints more money then that dollar goes down and so do my Canadian mounty bobble head sales, DUN PRINT MONEY PLEASE!

 

You didn't read my post above.

 

THERE IS NO DEBT CRISIS. We are in a motherfucking recession. Recessions always make the US debt look like it is in crisis.

 

As soon as our GDP increases after we are out of the double dip, our debt will appear to be diminishing. Like I said, you can't measure sovereign debt by its total price. You can only measure it against a nations' GDP as a percentage.

 

As it stands now, this is not the highest amount of debt the country has been in. In fact, world motherfucking war fucksauce II was the worst. As I said, the debt during that time was 100% of GDP! Right now we are just over 80%, outside the comfort zone of 20-70%.

 

Stop listening to the Republitards and Demofucks, cause they are both filled with fear mongering, agenda pushing, ass hats, and fuck faces.

[Guest The_Monkey]

Am I still allowed to quote The_Monkey in my sig even if his post is a few pages long. I feel blessed to be around intelligence like this.

 

Feel free to quote away.

[Guest]

Feel free to quote away.

quoted

[Ninja Cooki3]

[video=youtube;IhnUgAaea4M]

[LazaHorse]

Stop listening to the Republitards and Demofucks, cause they are both filled with fear mongering, agenda pushing, ass hats, and fuck faces.

 

Sig'd.

 

God I love you...

 

Relevant to the thread, most of you who are scared for your life of this "debt crisis" are either too young or too uneducated to know/remember America's past struggles with debt. As The_Monkey alluded to, wartime results in debt... it's that simple. Thanks to our recent excursions in Afghanistan and Iraq, we've fallen back into debt similar to the debt we had during Vietnam or Korea. IT HAPPENS. You'll see in a few years that American industry and our export market will recover and the debt will slowly recede. No amount of political banter or brinksmanship policy making is going to clean up the debt in an instant. Like everything else in America's past, it takes time.

[Wabbit]

My point isn't the car, my point is that even people who would want to buy an American car, can't. This can even be shown with cheaper cars. Give me one American competitor to a Subaru Outback.

 

 

wake up people!!!!!!! we r a Global Economy.

Imports are always gonna b cheaper than exports especially when 80% of what we use is made in China.

U have an Iphone? or Ipod? look at the back, " Designed in California, Produced in China"

Here they sell u an IPAD for $700 and is made in china, but in China they sell u an ipad for $80

U know APPLE is the #1 company in China right now, GMC IS THE #1 automaker in ASIA right now.

 

This Corporations don't have a flag anymore, they r Global corporations, they will go to the big Markets and exploit them.

"American" corporations are a thing of the past.

why would u pay $700 for an ipad that is made in China? lol

[Wabbit]

just my input. why discuss this on a gaming forum? go post this on facebook or somthing.

 

"Forum: General

 

Post about general non-game related topics here"

[60Seconds]

wake up people!!!!!!! we r a Global Economy.

Imports are always gonna b cheaper than exports especially when 80% of what we use is made in China.

U have an Iphone? or Ipod? look at the back, " Designed in California, Produced in China"

Here they sell u an IPAD for $700 and is made in china, but in China they sell u an ipad for $80

U know APPLE is the #1 company in China right now, GMC IS THE #1 automaker in ASIA right now.

 

This Corporations don't have a flag anymore, they r Global corporations, they will go to the big Markets and exploit them.

"American" corporations are a thing of the past.

why would u pay $700 for an ipad that is made in China? lol

 

They still are American corporations. If we stopped buying their crap, they would go out of business. We are their biggest market. Also, iPads don't cost $80 in China.

[NOMNOM]

 

/thread

[Wabbit]

They still are American corporations. If we stopped buying their crap, they would go out of business. We are their biggest market. Also, iPads don't cost $80 in China.

 

 

They r not American Corporations!!!! lol

Major US corporations have moved globally and follow the laws of supply and demand

This holds true in materials, human resources and any other factor that influences the cost of production. These companies know only profit as a motive.

 

It is human nature to forget lessons of the past, then learn them again.

 

 

and yes the ipad doesn't cost $80 i probably went to low on that one, but they cos half of what we pay here.

 

Today, dozens of manufacturing and trading companies list purportedly new and original iPads on Chinese trading website Alibaba. Prices range from $100 to $440.

 

Also, China is predicted to b the biggest Auto industry market by 2015, and also the biggest Internet Market and Ad market by 2018.

[Guest The_Monkey]

wake up people!!!!!!! we r a Global Economy.l

 

This is actually a different subject. As to whether or not outsourcing is bad, and whether or not buying everything from China is bad.

 

At first, I thought both were bad; giving up American jobs in order to increase revenue.

 

HOWEVER, cheap products from China increase middle class buying power. This is good!

 

Same goes for outsourcing. If an employer can send 50 menial jobs overseas for a 1/4 of the price to employ all those jobs, let them. Most of the time those same benefits will hire people for more lucrative jobs since all the menial shit is being done by Indians.

 

However, China's monetary policy of manipulating its money in order to keep Chinese exports booming is still yet a different story.

[Wabbit]

This is actually a different subject. As to whether or not outsourcing is bad, and whether or not buying everything from China is bad.

 

At first, I thought both were bad; giving up American jobs in order to increase revenue.

 

HOWEVER, cheap products from China increase middle class buying power. This is good!

 

Same goes for outsourcing. If an employer can send 50 menial jobs overseas for a 1/4 of the price to employ all those jobs, let them. Most of the time those same benefits will hire people for more lucrative jobs since all the menial shit is being done by Indians.

 

However, China's monetary policy of manipulating its money in order to keep Chinese exports booming is still yet a different story.

 

i agree with ya,

i never say it was bad or good, it goes for both sides, Walmart is a example of it,

People that buy in Walmart save allot of money.

but at same time people looses their jobs bcause of it.

 

i just wanna to explain that things changed, b4 the great depression we used to make everything in here, then Capitalism went Global, Markets opened up to US and we opened to them, Free trade agreements, NAFTA etc... its all Global now.

China isn't Communism, i believe China is a Hybrid of Capitalism and Communism,.

[60Seconds]

They r not American Corporations!!!! lol

Major US corporations have moved globally and follow the laws of supply and demand

This holds true in materials, human resources and any other factor that influences the cost of production. These companies know only profit as a motive.

 

It is human nature to forget lessons of the past, then learn them again.

 

 

and yes the ipad doesn't cost $80 i probably went to low on that one, but they cos half of what we pay here.

 

Today, dozens of manufacturing and trading companies list purportedly new and original iPads on Chinese trading website Alibaba. Prices range from $100 to $440.

 

Also, China is predicted to b the biggest Auto industry market by 2015, and also the biggest Internet Market and Ad market by 2018.

 

I am a co-owner of a company. To tell you the truth, all I do care is about profit. Profit pays my salary and enables me to have nice things. I don't give a fuck about the guy that mops up the floor in my office, I'll outsource his job anyday. But, I wouldn't outsource somebody that deals directly with my customers, because they pay a ton of money and I'm not going to go cheapass on them. I'd love to use materials for my buildings that are made in China. Believe it or not, the quality is better than some of the American made stuff that the government regulations force me to use.

[/-/-()/-/3Y]

Dam @OP, you make us teens look like fucking retards who only use technology for shit and whine about everything. Oh wait...we are....anyways...wow..nvm...your too ignorant to learn anything OP...

[Guest The_Monkey]

i agree with ya,

i never say it was bad or good, it goes for both sides, Walmart is a example of it,

People that buy in Walmart save allot of money.

but at same time people looses their jobs bcause of it.

 

i just wanna to explain that things changed, b4 the great depression we used to make everything in here, then Capitalism went Global, Markets opened up to US and we opened to them, Free trade agreements, NAFTA etc... its all Global now.

China isn't Communism, i believe China is a Hybrid of Capitalism and Communism,.

 

Things do change. We are a service economy now. This isn't a bad thing. The only problem is that people need to be educated in what they do. Taking stimulus money and paying grants for colleges is a good Capital Investment. It will pay off in the future, but hurt in the mean time.

[Kirk]

I enjoy being ignorant and ignoring this type of shit.

[Chillin]

Things do change. We are a service economy now. This isn't a bad thing. The only problem is that people need to be educated in what they do. Taking stimulus money and paying grants for colleges is a good Capital Investment. It will pay off in the future, but hurt in the mean time.

 

Word. This is why the Republican party needs to expel all the damn far-right that are currently setting the narrative for the party.

 

Ridiculous ideas like lowering/removing minimum wage, and suggesting Rick Perry has accomplished something good by adding almost nothing but minimum wage jobs to Texas, while cutting funding for the poor and needy.

 

IMO, it seems inevitable that jobs that require little/no education, as technology advances, are going to fade away. What happens when AI advances to the point that it can handle most office jobs(we aren't that far off)? Or when manufacturing becomes even more automated? When robotics technology skyrockets? These questions bring up another question: What do we do with all the people who can't afford to be educated, or those who simply lack the intelligence? What of all the people who simply won't be employed due to lack of necessity of workers(educated or not)? Do we take a survival of the fittest attitude or do we become more compassionate?

 

Makes me wish I would be alive long enough to see how it plays out. Pollution, overpopulation, and lack of resources are problems already starting to look very realistic.

 

Just some food for thought.

[60Seconds]

Listening to the tea partiers is just feeding the trolls, we need to ignore them. They stoop to new lows every day. Almost all of the good old Republicans are gone. We need more people like Charlie Crist. One of the best governors my state has had.

[Guest The_Monkey]

We need more people like Charlie Crist.

 

I fucking roflstop roll around the floor giggling and convulsing.

 

Charlie Christ was a terrible governor. His only shining point was when he started talking shit to the republicans when his term was over.

 

Other than that, that motherfucker is a bureaucrat at its finest.