not abuse Lazahorse Teamspeak Abuse

[Tanky<3]

Abuser Name: LazaHorse

Steam ID: Teamspeak issue

What Server: HG Teamspeak

About What Time: Approximately 5 minutes ago

Proof: See attached picture

http://cloud.dloaded...d1900c5fa74.jpg

Please Tell Us About the Incident:

LazaHorse was speaking about things that no one had any interest in hearing about. I proceeded to say 'How about no?' several times as he continued to speak about this. Speaking about tinychat and the guests are were in the room while no one else in the teamspeak channel was even on tinychat. We were all playing jailbreak and speaking in the jailbreak channel. He proceeded to move me into the minigames channel, then I moved myself back and told him to not do that and he then proceeded to tell me 'Don't speak' 'Who is this kid' because he apparently believes he has channel ownership. At which point he muted me giving me group permissions of dreamwrecked, and I had, had enough and proceeded to poke him and tell 'Unmute me, I'm going to create an abuse report.' He unmuted me in the channel and proceeded to say 'I do not care, go ahead, I warned you 3 times.' He had not warned anyone 3 times, he was in the jailbreak channel not playing jailbreak and speaking about pointless things while we were talking about jailbreak, and continued with a response of you can even go talk to bigjohn. I proceeded to go and speak with bigjohn who noticed LazaHorse had done this and said he should not be doing these things and proceeded to help me with creating the abuse report properly.

 

Also I want to make it known that no one else in the channel had any issues with me saying 'How about no?' and they proceeded to say that to LazaHorse several times as well, and even told him once he moved me to 'Leave Tanky alone, he's cool.'

Edited December 19, 2012 by Tanky<3

[LazaHorse]

I love when people leave important details out of reports.

 

While you were spamming "How about no?//Nobody cares.//No one is listening." over and over, I said multiple times "Stop spamming" or "You are doing this just to cause problems and need to stop." After you failed to heed my warnings (spamming to get someone to stop talking is quite counter productive by the way; if you had actually wanted me to stop for the sake of orders you would have/could have/should have said so), I moved you to the channel below. You then rejoined and started raising your voice about how it was abuse and you were going to report it. I told you to go ahead and do so, that I had warned you to stop (I had), and that I was done arguing with you. When you CONTINUED to raise hell about it, I muted you for the sake of myself as well as everyone in the channel who (as you said) was trying to play jailbreak.

 

I never mentioned Bigjohn until HE REMOVED the dreamwrecker tag from you (not me). I poked you with "Or BIgjohn can do that \o/", i.e. if bigjohn wants to take the dreamwrecker tag off that's up to him. You then started spouting off again about how you were planning to report me, at which point I gave up trying to reason with you and k'd you until you stopped and left the channel. No one else in the channel was saying a word to me at any point other than Rawr and Ben, the two people I was talking to. Do not try to excuse your behavior by saying others were part of it. 1, that is not the case. 2, it would not excuse it regardless.

 

You were spamming over me to cause problems, not for some higher cause. Don't grandstand that such was the case. Things like "This is why no one likes you" and "Hey, just letting you know the abuse report I filed is up" don't add to your white knight attempt.

[Tanky<3]

I love when people leave important details out of reports.

 

While you were spamming "How about no?//Nobody cares.//No one is listening." over and over, I said multiple times "Stop spamming" or "You are doing this just to cause problems and need to stop." After you failed to heed my warnings (spamming to get someone to stop talking is quite counter productive by the way; if you had actually wanted me to stop for the sake of orders you would have/could have/should have said so), I moved you to the channel below. You then rejoined and started raising your voice about how it was abuse and you were going to report it. I told you to go ahead and do so, that I had warned you to stop (I had), and that I was done arguing with you. When you CONTINUED to raise hell about it, I muted you for the sake of myself as well as everyone in the channel who (as you said) was trying to play jailbreak.

 

I never mentioned Bigjohn until HE REMOVED the dreamwrecker tag from you (not me). I poked you with "Or BIgjohn can do that \o/", i.e. if bigjohn wants to take the dreamwrecker tag off that's up to him. You then started spouting off again about how you were planning to report me, at which point I gave up trying to reason with you and k'd you until you stopped and left the channel. No one else in the channel was saying a word to me at any point other than Rawr and Ben, the two people I was talking to. Do not try to excuse your behavior by saying others were part of it. 1, that is not the case. 2, it would not excuse it regardless.

 

You were spamming over me to cause problems, not for some higher cause. Don't grandstand that such was the case. Things like "This is why no one likes you" and "Hey, just letting you know the abuse report I filed is up" don't add to your white knight attempt.

 

First things first, you did no such things as to say stop spamming, and that i am causing a problem, you proceeded to say the things I mentioned that you said, people were in the teamspeak channel and heard you, so please stop pretending to act like you were somehow magically following advisor rules. You do this repeatedly and you are well known for it, as well as your actions through out people that you come in contact with.

 

Secondly, I did not come back and 'raise my voice' because that is not what I do when speaking to you, the first thing I said was that is abuse, at no point did I say I was going to file the report until you had muted me. You did not do that for the sake of the people in the channel because they did proceeded to as i said side with me and were saying 'How about no?' as well. Not one person was acknowledging what you were talking about because you brought it up randomly. They were saying the same things as me, and I mentioned that not saying that anyone was at fault besides you for the fact that you do whatever you wish whenever you are given your advisor permissions. You were obviously only upset with the fact that I was the first one to dispute your rambling.

 

Thirdly, I was not spamming to cause problems, I told you why you should not have done the things you did on teamspeak as to how you were in the jailbreak channel, not playing jailbreak, and speaking about things that no one in the channel was listening to, nor acknowledging. I told you all this calmly, and collectively without as you are trying to say 'raising my voice.'

 

As for the comment to 'This is why no one likes you' during our argument, this is not our first encounter. While I was a recruit, LazaHorse proceeded to say once I joined a channel, that 'You're a recruit so don't talk.' Telling me as a recruit that I had no right to speak in the teamspeak channel that I was in with RedDevil. The facts were put on a post already on the forums where I and others had mentioned some of LazaHorse's actions in a post that LazaHorse made of his negative reputation on the forums. I am not the type of person to begin raging over teamspeak about LazaHorse's actions, because they can all be rectified with a simple abuse report. Also once the abuse report was made, and I was advised by another leader, I spoke to SuperSkreech about the report and once I was done being advised by him I came into the jailbreak channel and told LazaHorse again in a calm and collective manner, which he seems to try so well at trying to make me seem as if I came there to gloat and rub it in his face, I merely told him 'LazaHorse the abuse report is up on the forums, you can go check it out, I spoke with bigjohn and super about it, good job.'

[LazaHorse]

Given that your most recent post did little more than restate your original post without proof of anything you are claiming, I'll wait for someone to officially review it. It is clear that neither of us has the "proof" necessary to make our case, nor is it clear that there really is a case to be made here. Frankly, you know what you were doing. You are attempting to bring up old news to establish a shaky foundation that would make your attack easier to present (straw man), but our leadership is smarter than that. Provide proof that you were in the right, that you did not spam over me or raise your voice just so I could not be heard, and that the move and mute were not warranted and you win. Continue to try this ad hominem approach at deconstructing my argument based on what you see as character flaws and you will get nowhere.

 

No one joined you in your behavior. Nor did any one applauded or defend you. Rather, another member complained that it was causing drama, and not until you left to speak with Bigjohn did the channel continue peacefully. Ben and I talked about my elo in season 3 on League, and Broken and some others were talking about jailbreak games they wanted done. The channel continued as it had before your show without so much as a hitch. Notice though, it continued with me still in the channel... and with you gone.

[bleblablueble]

"How about no?//Nobody cares.//No one is listening."

 

I care.

[Tanky<3]

Given that your most recent post did little more than restate your original post without proof of anything you are claiming, I'll wait for someone to officially review it. It is clear that neither of us has the "proof" necessary to make our case, nor is it clear that there really is a case to be made here. Frankly, you know what you were doing. You are attempting to bring up old news to establish a shaky foundation that would make your attack easier to present (straw man), but our leadership is smarter than that. Provide proof that you were in the right, that you did not spam over me or raise your voice just so I could not be heard, and that the move and mute were not warranted and you win. Continue to try this ad hominem approach at deconstructing my argument based on what you see as character flaws and you will get nowhere.

 

No one joined you in your behavior. Nor did any one applauded or defend you. Rather, another member complained that it was causing drama, and not until you left to speak with Bigjohn did the channel continue peacefully. Ben and I talked about my elo in season 3 on League, and Broken and some others were talking about jailbreak games they wanted done. The channel continued as it had before your show without so much as a hitch. Notice though, it continued with me still in the channel... and with you gone.

 

It's funny how you are referring to me as having a shaky foundation to the abuse you had done in teamspeak, which is shown in the picture, and that the 'neither of us have proof' has come about. Since our leadership is quite smart when dealing with situations, I would like to see your proof as to how what you did on teamspeak was justified for you to abuse your teamspeak permissions. I doubt this is your first issue, its surprising how you wish to continue on the short straws that you have actually been dealt. And lastly, you're neither witty nor clever with your use of italics on me trying to make this a personal argument. This is not, because if it was, I would have actually linked to the post of what had transpired on teamspeak the first time we met. This is an abuse report on your actions of abuse on teamspeak, which were unjustified, clearly in violation of your advisor title.

 

I am working on my way towards advisor, which I do not waste my time on making up stories nor pinning things on others as a child. I create ban reports with proof, recruit others into HG on the recruit status, and as the others, create an abuse report when it is necessary. When was the last time have you done any of these as an advisor, or even better, ever?

 

Also this is not for what conversations you had once I had left the channel to deal with this, because people are not going to avoid you like a plague because of your actions when they are already in the channel. This is of what transpired while me and you spoke.

 

The proof of what you have done is there, the report is written, please stop posting and leave it for the proper leadership. Thank you.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Tanky<3

[LazaHorse]

Your proof shows nothing but my muting you. It does not show it to be abuse. It was an admin action that I felt was warranted and that you have yet to show was not. The italics were because the phrase is from Latin, and coming from a Classics background, I have always italicized Latin phrases. As far as me needing to supply my own proof, that is simply not the case. You filed the report on me, the burden of proof is on you. If teamspeak moderators had to provide proof for every action they ever took, no one would ever take action. Mutes, moves, kicks... they occur more-or-less on the fly. To expect me to record Teamspeak EVERY minute that I am connected is simply nonsensical.

 

I am working on my way towards advisor, which I do not waste my time on making up stories nor pinning things on others as a child. I create ban reports with proof, recruit others into HG on the recruit status, and as the others, create an abuse report when it is necessary. When was the last time have you done any of these as an advisor, or even better, ever?

 

So we get to the root of the issue. This isn't about abuse... it's about your opinion that I apparently do not deserve my position as advisor. You qualify that with your own list of things advisors ought to be doing for Hellsgamers. Have you ever thought perhaps that not every division's advisors perform the same duties? Who do I file ban reports for as a Strategy advisor? TheOddOne? But if you DO want a repertoire of things I have done in my TWO different stints as an advisor for this clan, it includes among others:

 

Publishing of multiple guides for my division's games.

Drafting and administration of multiple events including one coming up this Saturday.

Recruitment that is 4 or 5 times that of anyone else from my division.

Administration of our Jailbreak server paid from my own pocket.

Teamspeak moderation and help (I am, as far as I know, the only Strategy advisor that normally mans the help desk).

 

But please tell me all about how great of an advisor you will be and how I do a shit job compared to what you would do if you were just given the chance.

[Tanky<3]

Your proof shows nothing but my muting you. It does not show it to be abuse. It was an admin action that I felt was warranted and that you have yet to show was not. The italics were because the phrase is from Latin, and coming from a Classics background, I have always italicized Latin phrases. As far as me needing to supply my own proof, that is simply not the case. You filed the report on me, the burden of proof is on you. If teamspeak moderators had to provide proof for every action they ever took, no one would ever take action. Mutes, moves, kicks... they occur more-or-less on the fly. To expect me to record Teamspeak EVERY minute that I am connected is simply nonsensical.

 

 

 

So we get to the root of the issue. This isn't about abuse... it's about your opinion that I apparently do not deserve my position as advisor. You qualify that with your own list of things advisors ought to be doing for Hellsgamers. Have you ever thought perhaps that not every division's advisors perform the same duties? Who do I file ban reports for as a Strategy advisor? TheOddOne? But if you DO want a repertoire of things I have done in my TWO different stints as an advisor for this clan, it includes among others:

 

Publishing of multiple guides for my division's games.

Drafting and administration of multiple events including one coming up this Saturday.

Recruitment that is 4 or 5 times that of anyone else from my division.

Administration of our Jailbreak server paid from my own pocket.

Teamspeak moderation and help (I am, as far as I know, the only Strategy advisor that normally mans the help desk).

 

But please tell me all about how great of an advisor you will be and how I do a shit job compared to what you would do if you were just given the chance.

 

Just as ban reports are made and proof is needed in certain situations. I would love to see the proof you have for your actions. That is right I created the ban report, and my proof was of the actions you made, please bring your proof of the steps you took, when I already have one person that was in the channel that can back up what had happened. Your publications could all be done as a member and as a love for the game since not one person that I know of had asked you to do this, administration for the jailbreak server, oh... you mean paying for admin before having advisor, everyone with a paypal account or credit card can do that, its the proper ruling to do so that differentiates people, as I see no ban reports or t-lists from you, and as far as teamspeak moderation is concerned, if these actions that transpired tonight are in any way shape or form of your moderation, then your presence would be well unneeded ever.

 

As you said, bigjohn had un-dreamwrecked me without me asking him to, and while he was in another channel, because right away he had seen it was unwarranted. I am not saying with my list of things how I SHOULD have an advisor position, as I am simply stating that I do things that I can do best in my own powers as a member for the community. As I mentioned I am 'working' towards advisor which is quite a few more steps for me continuing to show my proper behaviour and colours as a trusted HG member. Which I have been doing ever since becoming a part of this community 4 years ago.

 

You can please stop posting your nonsense until true leadership comes up with a decision. Leave it be until then, and again thank you for your great concern of your 'well deserved' position as advisor, which can clearly be seen just as an example on your forum with the way you are regarded to and you speak to others. If you really look forward to it as a strategy advisor, then you should not be bothering HG members of other divisions or bothering with being in the jailbreak channel while people are trying to play.

 

My personal opinion of you, is that I do not like the way you condone yourself and your actions, but that does not mean that others do not like you, that is just my opinion. As well I feel as though with people that do like you they must like you for a good reason, which I would have loved to find out myself instead of whenever coming into a channel with you, you feeling this need of control or power over others with or without advisor. And I personally think you do well for the community as you say to bring up the strategy division with guides towards the HG community but I have not seen you do things for the community to expand, as well I feel as though power is not a strong point for you as you have this insisting need to abuse it or act out very rudely towards others in the same community you are trying to represent. As far as I have seen though, there have been no nice things said about you from the members I speak with on a frequent basis. These are my thoughts for you, take them for what you want.

 

Please stop posting until leadership reviews.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Tanky<3

[enigma#]

dAs are given the right to mute people who are deemed to be disruptive or disrespectful to people in a certain channel.

 

You both fail to really prove your respective points, for instance "Tanky" your picture proof only shows that you've been added to 'Dreamwrecker' group. It doesn't add value to the whole discussion to just say 'I've been dreamwrecked therefore I have been abused".

 

Anyways, the information that @bigjohn provides will help us understand this situation a bit more clearly.

 

Given at face value, this seems like a typical teamspeak conversation gone sour because of personal hatred from either parties.

 

Pending @BigJohn

[bigjohnMS]

All i was told was that laz wasnt in jailbreak and talkin bout random things and the players couldnt hear the game so tanky was gettn fk cause he could hear the orders. And when he was asking them to stop talkin they wouldnt so he spammed over them is what my understanding of the situation was. For future reference tanky mainly if issues like these happen come find me so they can be dealt with at the time so this doesn't elevate like it did thanks

[enigma#]

Addendum:

 

Based on what I've been told and read, it sounds like both parties are at fault to a degree AT LEAST.

 

It sounds like Tanky didn't heed the warning the channel when he chose to continually troll Laz back.

 

It sounds like Lazarus was just as problematic in the channel.

 

The mute was definitely warranted but the actions outside of it and leading up to by both parties were unnecessary.

 

Tanky, please go to a dL if you're having a problem with a dA instead of trying to exacerbate it.

 

Lazarus, based on my understanding of the situation, it sounds like you were just as talkative and that your discussions weren't welcomed by everyone. This doesn't necessarily entitle you to spew it and reprimand people who don't want to.

 

As a simple way to mitigate this situation from happening again, please locally mute him Tanky if you're having a problem with him. I do not want to see a leadership member threaten people over something small like this. This is not acceptable.