Wtf Is Happening To Hg?

[Tanky<3]

I have been part of HG community, TECHNICALLY for about 4 years, disappeared for a while and came back to... this... I don't want to bash on the community in a whole, because in reality the HG community as a WHOLE doesn't exist. HellsGamers used to be about all the players, being part of a group, clan, friendship of players helping each other, laughing at each other, respecting each other, and most of all taking care of the players that were lucky enough or managed to be part of the community and enjoy the privileges of higher ranked players making it fun for everyone. Now, most of those higher ranked players don't exist in the community, and when they do its just cause they have to because the HG rules need them to make some sort of 'high end' and 'tough' choices.

 

The community is filled with these admins that are either not mature enough to be an admin, or are just here to get some sort of power to have over other players. And there isn't enough higher ranked players to even see the people that are on constantly, or that do the things that most players see on a daily basis that happens on HG. It's become a community where HG thrives on players that will give money to support the servers to run, and they almost get the freedom to do anything. Sure there are ban reports that can be made, but in all reality it won't/doesn't change much of anything in the servers. The only players that get banned or kicked/reported are the idiots that will come and literally do the stupidest things like try and kill everyone in 1 server. They get banned and that's it. But in a whole it doesn't change the community from the types of admin abusers that exist with the power to really do anything since no one is watching them, and all they have to say is 'don't disrespect admins or you'll be kicked/banned.'

 

I personally see this constantly, players that get this admin idea into their heads, and this 'power' lets them say, do, and act whatever way they want, and anyone that disagrees with them is 'disrespecting.' HG even has these types of hungry players in there trusted ranks through advisors, not so much leaders from what I have seen, though it seems it has spread to upper management. We have had players that have been part of the community, for years, doing significant things for the regular players, protecting, and fighting for them, and using the community as a friendship and a privilege to be part of demoted and stripped/tossed from HG as if they have done nothing for HG. These leaders/friends that were on constantly, on a daily basis, an ACTUAL significant part of HG were seen as nothing but expendable by upper management/council decisions just because of either an accident or 1 time fuck up because in the eyes of how HG is run now, they did not supply a server or they do not code for HG to consider them a special case.

 

A good friend of mine in the community has been demoted in the community this Divisional Leader was BigJohn. He was that type of leader that was active almost everyday/night. Able to talk to, comes to your aid, makes the games fun, and is an all around goofball but with a great attitude that I do not believe 1 HG member can talk badly about. Played a lot more than just the division he was meant to lead, and he was there for everyone. He's been that ACTUAL significant player that took care of all of us, and now, he's been tossed from DL as if he did nothing for HG even though he's been here for almost over 4 years. He's been here longer than some of the upper management that 'run' decisions here, and yet those UMs are barely even online anymore...

 

He's not the only player that was here as a leader and been treated poorly but he's just the most recent example.But if HG can treat a good leader like that, what does mean for all the regular members of HG, or the ones that spend the time on HG to make the effort of expanding the community. And sure you can see he was demoted for a 'abuse' but in reality, he had a reason, it was an accident, and in the abuse it was written 'continued admin abuse.' Me for one would love to see the 'continued' portion of that demotion. The regular players are what makes HG, we're here everyday, playing on the servers, and players that want to join HG only want to join because they see all of us on, playing, and think this is something I'd like to be part of. But why be part of something that you're seen as an expendable nothing. I for one am still part of HG because I know that we can make a difference if we actually tried, but in reality I know this will probably fall on deaf ears but hey who knows, maybe this might actually become a discussion for UM and Council, and if it does I've done enough to know someone has read it.

 

BigJohn deserves his DL, there are some DAs that deserve more than just DA, and honestly there should be a clear out of some of the UM just for the simple fact that they're not doing much for the respect of the community. The community is run by the regular player, and the members that have been here for a long time, because a lot of the DA/DL do not donate to keep the servers running, and I do not remember the last time a UM donated. There should be a new rank that does not make decisions even if they have contributed to coding on servers, they have made a roll for something for HG, but they should not be relied on to make decisions of cutting players all of sudden that have been here for years. And they know who they are.

[HelloImKevin]

ranks are titles. i see every1 the same way. you dont need a title to tell others how much better you are do you?

[Navi]

ranks are titles. i see every1 the same way. you dont need a title to tell others how much better you are do you?

Well, here is the flaw in your logic. If you treat everyone the same way like you call someone a baddie as a joke, and he is a Friend of HG. No one's going to give a shit about what you said to him because he is not part of HG's responsibility. However if you go call one of the council members a baddie as a joke, your gonna be dealing with consequences for disrespect.

[dorito^]

I must admit i've seen this happening around as of the last few months. I don't see HG as a family anymore; just a place where people can go to boss around others, come in with apparently new ideas, just so that they have something to have control over; so they rank up a position within the community.

 

I'm saddened to have read that; we can't deny that it is happening. We must attempt to try and go back to being like one big family.

[Bear+]

We have lost great leaders to dumb shit sadly, a lot of the [HG] members constantly talk about leaving because it used to be really fun before but a lot has changed for the worse.

[n0y0u]

+1 will reply further more when im on my computer not phone

[SBPro]

All this is absolutely true. HG would not be here if it weren't for all the support from members. But I definitely feel the difference in attitudes based on titles. Everybody wants a higher rank and become power hungry. They make reports just to be seen, not just because the banee was doing something wrong. They ban/tlist/blacklist just to have their name next to a report.

Edited February 11, 2013 by SBPro

[HelloImKevin]

flawed

[Kinta]

This would be the reason I stopped donating. Hell I stopped paying for admin because of the buddy system of free admins. I payed for a while to support but after getting bossed around by a few buddy buddy higher ranks I said screw it. I've been a part of HG longer than some that like to play "boss." Some of the Upper management like to play the "I don't like you so I'm going to find something against you" game. The PERP server would be a great example(but not the only one) of lack of fun. It's been taken over by children and is run with a paragraph of changing rules.

 

I even stopped posting on the forums so much because of this.

 

Anyone want an example of what HG used to be? Where buddies get their ban reports/abuse reports thrown out nowadays to keep the record "clear" this was kept on me but I'm glad. It was a mistake I made being ignorant at the time to some of the admin commands and the way things were run.

 

Still, this was the attitude towards me back in the day and the understanding.

 

https://hellsgamers.com/topic/4618-kinta-steam-0018958456/page__hl__kinta

https://hellsgamers.com/topic/4617-kinta/page__hl__+kinta%20+abuse#entry24344

Edited February 11, 2013 by Kinta

[Wicked Sniper]

Bigjohn was my favorite dL without question.(no offense to other dLs) I've known him for awhile now. I met him on HGs servers before i was apart of the community. He is one of those people that makes the game fun for everyone. Even after he was promoted i've still seen him on the servers, He is still fun to play with, He takes the time to reply to stupid questions that are sometimes asked by those who are new to our servers. When Bigjohn is on the severs everyone is having a good time.

People sometimes make mistakes, I made my share when I was first an Admin on CSS. If you were to ask my opinion, demoting him was exetreme, especially when you have paid admins making the same mistakes or sometimes worse mistakes.(I'm not saying we need stricter methods, I'm just pointing out as humans we are fallible.)

[Kinta]

Bigjohn was my favorite dL without question.(no offense to other dLs) I've known him for awhile now. I met him on HGs servers before i was apart of the community. He is one of those people that makes the game fun for everyone. Even after he was promoted i've still seen him on the servers, He is still fun to play with, He takes the time to reply to stupid questions that are sometimes asked by those who are new to our servers. When Bigjohn is on the severs everyone is having a good time.

People sometimes make mistakes, I made my share when I was first an Admin on CSS. If you were to ask my opinion, demoting him was exetreme, especially when you have paid admins making the same mistakes or sometimes worse mistakes.(I'm not saying we need stricter methods, I'm just pointing out as humans we are fallible.)

 

*Ahem* One of the few that isn't "too good to play with lower ranks" people. As I usually mention, if I wanted to stress out I'd go to work. What a lot of people have forgotten is this a gaming community. You ARE NOT my boss. Cater to the players. The players don't cater to you.

 

Everyone has their moments. Don't take it personal.

PS: I forgot to mention. We do appreciate donations and giveaways and such. That ALONE shouldn't qualify you to be a leader. Players can choose to support the community if they enjoy being a part of it. It is definitely a good gesture.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Kinta

[Tanky<3]

*Ahem* One of the few that isn't "too good to play with lower ranks" people. As I usually mention, if I wanted to stress out I'd go to work. What a lot of people have forgotten is this a gaming community. You ARE NOT my boss. Cater to the players. The players don't cater to you.

 

Everyone has their moments. Don't take it personal.

 

Exactly, we should be enjoying the game/servers as friends, we're not employees....

[Wicked Sniper]

"too good to play with lower ranks" people.

 

every true.

 

What a lot of people have forgotten is this a gaming community. You ARE NOT my boss. Cater to the players. The players don't cater to you.

 

We should carter to eachother. This is a community and many even view it as a family.

[PerryThePlatypus]

Really need a tl;dr, the thread size should be readable whilst i'm queueing up in league.

[Kinta]

Really need a tl;dr, the thread size should be readable whilst i'm queueing up in league.

 

or you could read it another time or stop being so damn lazy

[Boxer-I-]

i "like" this. oh wait.

[(Headband)(EG)]

I am not 100% sure on how i feel about this. Some points i agree with you on though.

[Rizon]

I don't know if this is known to anyone, but do any of you see what happens behind closed doors, that you all DO NOT see? Well myself, Kigen, Super and my fellow Advisors of HG and my perp mods see this on a daily basis. It's not just by PERP, in Jailbreak and other server in HeLLsGamers.

 

His demotion happened because of continued admin abuse in PERP.

 

Quoting! "Continued," otherwise we wouldn't be having this thread right here.

 

It's sad because of all the people in this community Leadership is unheard and people just do not listen to simple statements and get really upset and you know what happens from there. (i.e. Someone cdm's purposely in PERP and makes excuses like the person jumped in front of him, yet he doesn't own up to his actions to drop all this drama yet he continues to troll/disrespect to make his invalid point when his actions we wrong in the first place).

 

That's an example of Ignorance and frankly don't give a fuck what admins say, and we don't tolerate that, because without admins in our server and leadership in communities NONE of you would be here.

Though I will say none of us are perfect and we all make mistakes from time to time and as long as we ALL ( I mean the whole community stands together) OWN UP to OUR MISTAKES, I assure you I'd be a better place.

 

So the abuse report resulted in that with bad judgements and failure to comply with simple regulations and rules we have in the server.

No to be hasty, but saying that Leadership is power hungry people... to be blunt that's ignorant to think that.

You assume that we "abuse" but you don't "CARE" what we do or what we've done for this community until you think you've seen us "abuse."

 

Most times users need to actually think why we are doing with these said actions and why it's justified. Think about it.

 

I ask to you all please if you have an issue with someone no matter what rank, don't blow up on anyone or be disrespectful just find a uM/C depending on which rank your reporting and calmly let them know the situation and it'll be handled properly.

 

 

Thank you all for your continued support for HeLLsGamers.

[blackberry4511]

I enjoyed the read. But i never (really) knew bigjohn, so i can't comment further.

[Dolan]

I enjoyed the read. But i never (really) knew bigjohn, so i can't comment further.

this

[youthedog]

Wasn't one of the big meetings before to help show the community what leadership does, less secrecy, and I really haven't seen much more on that, those news articles on what was going to hopefully change in certain divisions, then no progress reports after that or anything, just leaving us wondering why certain servers have no players, why there aren't many events or community involvement in things like this. If you want the servers revived, you have to go onto the servers, talk to the regulars, ask them what needs changed, what they want not what you guys may think may need change.

[Tanky<3]

I don't know if this is known to anyone, but do any of you see what happens behind closed doors, that you all DO NOT see? Well myself, Kigen, Super and my fellow Advisors of HG and my perp mods see this on a daily basis. It's not just by PERP, in Jailbreak and other server in HeLLsGamers.

 

His demotion happened because of continued admin abuse in PERP.

 

Quoting! "Continued," otherwise we wouldn't be having this thread right here.

 

It's sad because of all the people in this community Leadership is unheard and people just do not listen to simple statements and get really upset and you know what happens from there. (i.e. Someone cdm's purposely in PERP and makes excuses like the person jumped in front of him, yet he doesn't own up to his actions to drop all this drama yet he continues to troll/disrespect to make his invalid point when his actions we wrong in the first place).

 

That's an example of Ignorance and frankly don't give a fuck what admins say, and we don't tolerate that, because without admins in our server and leadership in communities NONE of you would be here.

Though I will say none of us are perfect and we all make mistakes from time to time and as long as we ALL ( I mean the whole community stands together) OWN UP to OUR MISTAKES, I assure you I'd be a better place.

 

So the abuse report resulted in that with bad judgements and failure to comply with simple regulations and rules we have in the server.

No to be hasty, but saying that Leadership is power hungry people... to be blunt that's ignorant to think that.

You assume that we "abuse" but you don't "CARE" what we do or what we've done for this community until you think you've seen us "abuse."

 

Most times users need to actually think why we are doing with these said actions and why it's justified. Think about it.

 

I ask to you all please if you have an issue with someone no matter what rank, don't blow up on anyone or be disrespectful just find a uM/C depending on which rank your reporting and calmly let them know the situation and it'll be handled properly.

 

 

Thank you all for your continued support for HeLLsGamers.

 

Rizon, this thread is to show exactly what is wrong with how HG has been heading, and your reply is honestly as if you haven't read anything but the fact that I talk about certain individuals and you take it out of context as if I'm talking about everyone. I wasn't speaking about all leadership, because some are on constantly, and some are really never there but in the shadows, and then pop out of no where as if they're really doing something. It's the fact that people can buy admin, or certain people are put up in higher ranks without real proper cause for decision making. These supposed 'continued' abuses along with other leaders/members that have since been demoted/left HG have been also a contributing factor to the speculations of almost personal attacks on them by certain individuals. In no way shape or form did you need to feel like you were being attacked just for being a DL. And as far as the decision making goes, its the fact that no one gets to see, hear, or get any input what so ever as the ACTUAL MEMBERS of the community, that keep it strong, and keep it going get any light of the situations. And this segregation between ranks, and having these people on the servers paying for admin instead of just giving them the privilege to enjoy the server and maybe donate for a VIP status with some perks is whats wrong with the way HG is going. There are a lot of people that are making decisions for things that they do not really have much knowledge on, but they get light of half or a partial story that leads them to making these all mighty and tough decisions. So before replying as if there was some sort of hate towards everyone, read it properly and understand where I along with others come from before saying this is ignorant because that would mean all these wonderful folks that commented and liked the post would ALL have to be ignorant to be feeling the same way as I do.

 

Also as far as your comment goes about none of us being here without leadership, it's a two-way street, without members, and people actually being there under management, there wouldn't be any of you there to help 'manage.'

[Tanky<3]

If UM/Council get around to reading it, maybe we can start considering new ways to include everyone that actually plays, and when decisions come up, we can have an actual CLAN MEETING like we used to, where people can have some sort of input in the way leadership is, who's a good fit for leader, and what needs to be done with what servers, so that we can have a revamp of the dead servers that HG has that literally sit there, get paid for, and in the end NO ONE USES yet we need all this DONATION MONEY that we just start bribing random/any players that join any HG server with a big sign 'Want admin on our servers?! go hellgamers.com and buy admin today!'

[Tanky<3]

I gotta disagree with this. I saw bigjohn run over 4 people on perp about 2 months ago and I ask him "Hey why did you just run those people over" he replies "because they were in my way if you think i did something wrong go post a fucking ban report." So I did and now hes demoted.

 

Yeah but if they were running in the street and he was driving going somewhere in perp, it's technically their fault for being on the road, just like real life. And I'm not talking about in the game, I'm talking about actually sitting down and talking with him, and being able to actually play with him, not just having a bad experience with him in a game because you saw that happen. This isn't a +1 or -1 to get into HG, this is about HG, and him himself, with my personal opinion, being that he made an awesome leader. Because you can't tell me that what happened to those 4 people in the game affected your life or gaming experience what so ever.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Tanky<3

[enigma#]

I have been part of HG community, TECHNICALLY for about 4 years, disappeared for a while and came back to... this... I don't want to bash on the community in a whole, because in reality the HG community as a WHOLE doesn't exist.

Let me stop you there, I was here for a full 3 years and saw the evolution and was part of all the changes that HG went through. You want to know why it has changed so much, because it has grown. We used to be a smaller, significantly smaller community where we can do a lot more interesting things without bigger consequences. When we appeal to a larger community, each individual in this community has their own vision, ideals and even demands about what HG should be. However, leaders have a due call to try to find what's best. We can't make everyone happy.

HellsGamers used to be about all the players, being part of a group, clan, friendship of players helping each other, laughing at each other, respecting each other, and most of all taking care of the players that were lucky enough or managed to be part of the community and enjoy the privileges of higher ranked players making it fun for everyone.

That does still exist, although at a more abstract layer. We're too big to try to make everyone get along. We laugh with one another, we share video games with one another. However, this isn't about having higher ranked players. When we have such large community, the 'fun' small things that we were able to do aren't so easily doable anymore because we also face the people who think having higher ranked player is unfair to paying players.

Now, most of those higher ranked players don't exist in the community, and when they do its just cause they have to because the HG rules need them to make some sort of 'high end' and 'tough' choices.

Although I disagree with your interpretation, this is what happens when a community grows where the leadership cannot always handle its size.

The community is filled with these admins that are either not mature enough to be an admin, or are just here to get some sort of power to have over other players.

Are you talking about paying admins or the admins who have to enlisted to watch over servers? Please clarify, I'd love to hear about the times that people lost their admin (leadership) with admin abuse reports. You personify us as immature or power hungry but we're all not like that. Perhaps some are... or perhaps this is a construction of what you're trying to get to next.

And there isn't enough higher ranked players to even see the people that are on constantly, or that do the things that most players see on a daily basis that happens on HG.

Because we're about 900 members, we have a HelpDesk for a reason. We have people enlisted to listen to your concerns or worries. I do my best to absorb as much out of the community in terms of issue as I can but it's not everything. It's funny how you talk about higher ranked player, but really all you're really trying to say is "Admin" because really, that's what it is...

It's become a community where HG thrives on players that will give money to support the servers to run, and they almost get the freedom to do anything. Sure there are ban reports that can be made, but in all reality it won't/doesn't change much of anything in the servers.

No they don't. I don't know where you think that idea and it's bullshit that if you were here for four years, you'd recognise we strip admin from paid admins with ease. However, we also try to teach paid admins what to do. Hey, even though it's not perfect, it does work whether you like to believe it or not. Things do change although here at HG, we're more averse to change. Sad it is, but it's the reality .I'm sorry you feel hurt by it. All communities are different in their own special way.

The only players that get banned or kicked/reported are the idiots that will come and literally do the stupidest things like try and kill everyone in 1 server. They get banned and that's it. But in a whole it doesn't change the community from the types of admin abusers that exist with the power to really do anything since no one is watching them, and all they have to say is 'don't disrespect admins or you'll be kicked/banned.'

We had a discussion about disrespect, it's about a two way street. Admins aren't expected to use the 'don't disrespect admin' as a wildcard to trump dissension however, admins have the right to help take care of the server. It aint perfect, but it has been working and if you were here for four years, you'd seen that. I've been here for 3 years, from recruit to where I am today.

I personally see this constantly, players that get this admin idea into their heads, and this 'power' lets them say, do, and act whatever way they want, and anyone that disagrees with them is 'disrespecting.'

They don't get to act this way. They are still subject to player rules. See above for more clarification. Don't let your personal biases cloud your ability to make rational arguments.

HG even has these types of hungry players in there trusted ranks through advisors, not so much leaders from what I have seen, though it seems it has spread to upper management.

Same thing applies, you talk about Power Hungry and yet... you really haven't seen what we're expected to do. Now I'm not saying everyone helps out with HG always but all of us up here contribute to a degree whether being a conflict mediator or a server manager. There is something we're all expected to do as leadership. Welcome to the idea of perspective. I see leadership as imperfect, prone to human error (because we're humans?), and at times rash, however I know we can all work together. You talk so holier-than-thou but you really haven't seen what we do in action. I do admit that is a slight fault on my part because I was trying to increase the communication between leadership and the community. I will do my best (when I'm back from my trip) to update people.