Remove Zs_Sludge

[Stelker]

Reason for removal, map can be exploited with the use of a skycade.

 

http://images.akamai...2098473E18B819/

[TheAtrocity]

It has already proven to be reachable, just be smart about it i.e. using the map to gain a higher starting height. A similar map would be junkyard. You can jump up to the bridge in 3 locations but humans defending it may make it harder.

 

Just because you are having a hard time does not mean a map needs to be removed. A skycade which is truly unreachable for example would be a skycade in ancient sands, above in the teleporter location. That has already been clearly dealt with and players know full well it is not allowed.

 

Tl;Dr get a start on the humans by reducing their numbers and/or impede or halt their skycade progress. Try using the map to help you jump higher.

[Stelker]

Oh, ok, I just gotta be "smart" and prevent the humans from exploiting the bad map design.

Thanks, really great advice.

• 2. No exploiting maps for any reason!
  

So, this is in no way considered an exploit of the map then, great judgement you have there.

"It's ok to exploit the map, if fast zombies are the only class to reach the humans"

Edited May 22, 2015 by Stelker

[TheAtrocity]

So a cade would be considered an exploit if headcrabs cannot reach the humans?

 

For starters, zombies can reach the skycade, end of story. I have seen many skycades fall in this map because your peers can get up there. The fact that only fast zombies can reach the cade is irrelevant, as the probability of humans winning the map using their skycade on sludge primarily focuses on 1 variable: the players on the zombie team. You were probably unlucky and had a rather poor team. Usually, there are more experienced players either issuing orders and/or tips while they themselves are compensating for the damages other players cannot do with the added effect of adding chaos on the human side. With tips, newer players will understand where to go and what to do in order to kill the humans.

 

Your logic would mean making many cades and cading techniques to be "exploiting", such as utilizing the long hallway or the cade within the rocks in pub final v7, using props to get zombies suck in certain situations, making a door cade in helipad survival to farm points or....there are a lot of actions that can qualify as exploiting. Your inability to play the game as well as a more experienced player and your team should be blamed, not just the map.

 

Don't blame survivors for creativity. You probably wouldn't have made this post if you were human on the skycade.

 

With that, we will take your concern into consideration the next time we update our map list. Thanks.

[Matt B]

only a few players even have the skill to make the sky cade without trolls interfering anyways. some very valid points atrocity. exploiting a map is going to a place that is unreachable by humans.

 

its actually quite easy to jump up there as fast zombie if you jump on the hanging light first FYI

[Stelker]

Never mind other maps, keep the subject to this map.

That one place just makes zs_sludge mediocre, humans shouldn't even be there, end of story.

 

You probably wouldn't have made this post if you were human on the skycade.

Doesn't make the point any less valid. Edited May 23, 2015 by Stelker

[Webflashing]

humans shouldn't even be there, end of story.

Is that written somewhere so you can show it?

 

All the times i have got up there(which are a few due to trolls interfering) we have lost to fasties, it may take most of the waves to kill the humans in that spot but it's not impossible.

[TheAtrocity]

My point is your definition of "exploit" is different from ours, with yours causing multiple clashes with the way ZS is usually conducted by players here on our servers. You can call it a fine line between using your creativity to benefit you and exploiting. Albeit vague, some leniency is needed to effectively differentiate between the two. Great potential rewards come with great risks.

 

That said, even if it is slightly harder for the zombie team to win, it is still very much possible and relatively easy to win. Learning from others is the best way to go about this.

 

 

[Stelker]

What I learned here today - Skycading is art, thanks Devision Advisor.

Prop to Prop nailing to reach places normally unreachable by players, is "creative", and as such, should be rewarded with a free win.

 

Whoever codes for this server could fix this issue by:

1. Hardcode a Limit to the amount of props that players can chain together with nails.

2. a map profile which adds a blast door (in mapname.lua profile), or poison gasses up there (mapeditor_add zombiegasses at the crosshair location).

 

I doubt anything will even come of this thread, because it seems skycading isn't exploiting, but, rather a creative way to win the map.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Stelker

[TheAtrocity]

What I learned here today - Skycading is art, thanks Devision Advisor.

Prop to Prop nailing to reach places normally unreachable by players, is "creative", and as such, should be rewarded with a free win.

Whoever codes for this server could fix this issue by:

1. Hardcode a Limit to the amount of props that players can chain together with nails.

2. a map profile which adds a blast door (in mapname.lua profile), or poison gasses up there (mapeditor_add zombiegasses at the crosshair location).

I doubt anything will even come of this thread, because it seems skycading isn't exploiting, but, rather a creative way to win the map.

 

You're absolutely right.

 

Or would be, if you understood statistics. Fact of the matter: even with a skycade, humans will usually still lose. How many times must I repeat myself? I think everyone who regularly plays here or are veterans on the server who have been playing for years can vouch.

 

I didn't become Divisional Advisor by playing this server for 4 hours.

 

It takes real skill and creativity to make a skycade. Simple in method, less so thinking up of good spots and cading there.

 

Simple. Ask yourself why maps like mall of the dead are not on the rotation. Why other maps aren't on the rotation . Oh right, because many of them feature a long hallway with humans winning 99% of the time and skycade maps like sludge come with a much much MUCH lower win %. Ah. Because skycading usually doesn't get you a win. *Rarely a win

[Bossdaddy22]

It's not that hard, if zombies are smart enough they will Learn how Op the bone mesh, and some other zombies, (+Trolls) are against it.

 

 

 

In this screenshot It shows how I (somehow) managed to kill 16 humans, 14 of which were in the skycade, by bone mesh alone. And it was very simple.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Bossdaddy22

[Kevinyock]

You can defeat an "impossible" skycade or hallway cade if you use the right technique.

[Dukakis]

I find Sludge a stupid map because everyone tries make a skycade and either it fails ,because trolls mess it up, or we make it successfully and then the people who are zombies say it is impossible to get up onto the skycade.

Also people only pick this map because they can build a skycade.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Dukakis

[Dreamy]

Map design is really bad. Skycade is super reachable and I've never seen humans win with it. Now, besides the concept of a skycade being reachable or not, there's a different concept, which is getting outside the map. In this particular case, I would say that said skycade is almost in the limit between inside and outside the map, given thatm for instance, some textures (floor) glitch out when standing on it. So, if you wanna call it a map exploit, you could try and find other reasons, but not the fact that only fast zombies can reach it (isn't that the definition of skycade????). Also, is a good map for new players to learn how to use the fast zombie class and master it

 

 

I know the thread is kinda old, but I wanted to say this for a while.