How Does The Rank Up System Work?

[EmberFrost]

I've been stuck in Gold Nova II (#scrub) for a few weeks now

 

I've played at least 20 games in those weeks winning 14 / 20

 

I know how the LoL system works, When you win you gain LP (League Points)

When you reach 100 LP of your rank, you get 3 games to rank up

If you win 2/3 you will rank up to the next rank, however if you don't, your LP will get reduced to (i think) 50-75

As well as if you lose (i think) 3 games whilst having 0 LP you will derank

 

However this isn't League of Legends, This is Counter Strike : Global Offense! (Insert Leonidas kick here)

 

Anyways, Does anyone know how the rank up (or the rank system in general) work?

Please comment some sort of detailed system Or just link me to some steam community guide

Either works

 

Happy Offensing!

[Johnmau]

fuck csgo css ftw

[Shaman]

As far as I am aware it uses the Elo system. Basically it goes by a per (round?) possibly and every time you get a kill it takes away points from that person and gives them to you and also the other way around. The higher rank you're playing the more points you get per kill. I'm not sure if this is completely accurate but it is more or less what I found on it. I've been stuck in GN3 for a bit now and still going matches like the following without ranking up.

 

http://images.akamai...FFDEA74C52F43A/

 

 

First, let's begin with an explanation of the Elo system. I think it would be good to cover what your Elo rating tells you, and what it doesn't tell you.

An Elo rating IS NOT a measure of your skill level. Every single complaint or suggestion about how it is unfair because you might be more skilled but still lose points means you do not even understand what the system is trying to measure.

The Elo system, and therefore your Elo rating, is a measure of "odds". The Elo system was designed to give a metric that can be used to determine a player's chances of winning. For example, two players with exactly the same Elo rating have a 50/50 chance of winning the match. This spread was originally designed logistically, such that a difference of 200 points, regardless of values, would give the higher player a 75% chance of winning (ignoring the possibility of a tie).

It is important to note that there is no point on the scale where you are guaranteed to win. This is especially true of people who are in the middle section (a.k.a. roughly average). Your chances to win do not fluctuate very much, and therefore it is expected that you will lose about as many games as you win.

WARNING! Scary Maths Incoming:

To calculate my chances of winning, based on known information, let's look at an example. Since I like to play AD Carry, I will calculate my chances of winning against my favorite AD Carry player aphromoo.

My Elo after the season 2 reset: 1270ish. aphromoo's current Elo: 2290ish

The formula to determine expected score is given as 1/[1+10^((Rb - Ra)/400)] Where Ra is my rating and Rb is their rating.

Based on the above Elo ratings, I would have a 0.28% chance of winning.

Alternatively, aphromoo would have a 99.72% chance of winning.

I can already tell that I'm setting myself up for massive whines by using an example of 1 player against 1 player to explain Elo, so I suppose now is the time to explain why the Elo rating works for League of Legends, even though it is a 5v5 game.

It is impossible to measure your individual skill exactly. Your skill can only be inferred based on your ability to beat other players. The matchmaking system in League of Legends takes 10 players of similar Elo ratings and splits them into two groups with team averages as similar as possible. This is, indeed, a fair way of splitting people up into teams. Two teams with similar average Elo ratings will have approximately a 50% chance of winning.

Here's another example to demonstrate:

If I were to average the Elo of the 5 people I play with most often, we would have an average Elo of 1176.

If I were to take the average Elo of the 5 members of team FeaR, they have an average Elo of 2159.

Therefore, the expected chance of team FeaR winning would be 99.65%. As everyone expects, we would probably get completely crushed in every lane and it turns out that averaging the five Elo ratings of the players gives a good estimate of who would win a 5v5 matchup.

================================================== =========================

Now, it's time to address some complaints about the Elo system.

Why does the thread title say "almost perfect" if everything works fine?

Well, there is a slight problem with the Elo system as it is implemented in League of Legends. The problem, though, is not the one that you all think it is, nor is it a problem that has that big of an overall effect on your individual rating. Really, I shouldn't even call it a problem, but more like a potential slight improvement which is likely hard to code and probably exploitable by some of the more "clever" summoners.

The League of Legends Elo system uses k-values (a.k.a. how the system determines how many points you gain or lose) that are mostly fixed values based on how many games you play. The only real way to improve on this would be to have a larger k-value for games which are completely one-sided stomps.

To illustrate, a game where every lane gets beat, one team gets all the dragons and barons, and completely crushes the enemy team, even taking the nexus before the 20 minute surrender mark, the winning team is clearly significantly better than the losing team and should move up more than in a close game which drags on for 60-70 minutes.

There are a number of things that the variable k-value could be based on, however I believe that a scale based on the difference in global gold and game length would be the most fair.

What about leavers and trolls?

Every player at every Elo has to put up with leavers and trolls. I genuinely believe that leavers should get an increased Elo loss while the rest of the team should get a slightly reduced Elo loss, but again it would have little overall effect on your personal score, but would rather move chronic leavers to a lower Elo at a faster rate.

Also, over time, the enemy team will have as many leavers and trolls as your team, so it really balances itself out.

I don't believe my Elo rating is accurate. (I think I'm better than it says I am).

Play more games. Even with the above mentioned "flaw" with the k-value system, over time you WILL get to your true Elo. More than likely though, you will have to accept the fact that you are not as good as you think you are. Most people are, in fact, average.

Finally, I will address what is perhaps the only legitimate complaint about the League of Legends Elo system.

Many people around the starting Elo (1200) have not reached their true Elo yet because they have not played very many games. This problem would not be solved by measuring individual skill, nor can it be completely solved with k-values based on the rate that new players join the game.

It is a problem that cannot ever be completely solved, but could be slightly alleviated by increasing the number of placement matches by at least double.

It could be further alleviated by adjusting the placement matches to measure more statistics than a simple win/loss measure.

Also, and this would absolutely help the situation, people doing their placement matches should not be allowed to duo queue, and should be completely segregated from the rest of the ranked population. I personally remember teaming with and against players who had ~100+ wins while I was doing my placement matches, and remember dominating at least three players who were currently doing their placement matches. I can only speculate, but I believe the match ups were directly related to duo-queueing.

These changes would, again, have a minor effect on your true Elo rating after several hundred games, but would make it slightly more enjoyable to play ranked matches if your true Elo was actually around the 1200 mark.

A quote from later on in the thread

"More experience than the hundreds of games it takes to even get to level 30 to play ranked? I'd contend that if anything, players should be required to play a minimum number of Draft Normals before queuing up for ranked. A change like what you're suggesting does nothing for the integrity of the system and can actually work to worsen it's effectiveness."

To summarize, the Elo rating system works very very well for League of Legends with a few minor flaws. The Elo rating does indeed give a fairly accurate measure of your chances to win against other rated opponents, and this accuracy extends very well to 5v5 matches.

There are ways to make slight improvements to the actual matchmaking (i.e. the process of selecting and placing 5 players on each team) but these changes would have very small effects on individual Elo ratings. Certain system changes would make ranked slightly more enjoyable, but overall people are upset over the system because they believe they are better than they actually are.

I hope I was able to help you all understand the Elo system a little bit better, and hopefully you all will direct those who need some clarification to this thread so that they may learn a little bit about math.

 

 

Granted the above gives an idea more geared towards LoL it is still pretty accurate reading of the Elo system,

 

Here is one more suited and detailed for what you are wanting.

 

 

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=260702087

Edited September 9, 2015 by Alten / Tseig

[Short]

As far as I am aware it uses the Elo system. Basically it goes by a per (round?) possibly and every time you get a kill it takes away points from that person and gives them to you and also the other way around. The higher rank you're playing the more points you get per kill. I'm not sure if this is completely accurate but it is more or less what I found on it. I've been stuck in GN3 for a bit now and still going matches like the following without ranking up.

 

http://images.akamai...FFDEA74C52F43A/

 

 

 

 

Granted the above gives an idea more geared towards LoL it is still pretty accurate reading of the Elo system,

 

Here is one more suited and detailed for what you are wanting.

 

 

http://steamcommunit...s/?id=260702087

 

This is extremely dated, look at the edited date.

 

Check this https://www.reddit.c...misconceptions/

Edited September 9, 2015 by Short

[essence]

It doesn't work

[DeathShot]

Edited September 9, 2015 by DeathShot

[CallMeEpic]

fuck csgo css ftw

 

Nice Answer that helped him alot.

[UnPrePared_]

This is extremely dated, look at the edited date.

 

Check this https://www.reddit.c...misconceptions/

vitaliy_valveValve Employee 402 points 12 months ago

 

 

Debug output mentioned in the guide comes from game client code having very old calculations that were used by Xbox 360 and PS3 versions of the game where client calculations could be trusted and matchmaking used round-based skill adjustments in order to support drop-in and drop-out gameplay on consoles. That code is deprecated on PC however and those calculations aren't currently used on PC.

When competitive matchmaking as we know it now was introduced in CS:GO in late 2012 we switched all non-competitive game modes to use simple ping-based matchmaking. For Competitive, we built a CS:GO-specific competitive ranking system that is significantly different and more complex than Elo.

The CS:GO competitive ranking system started with ideas based on Glicko-2 rating model and improved over time to better fit the CS:GO player base. All computations are performed on our matchmaking backend and multiple matchmaking parameters describing scientific set of rating variables of a player are represented to players as a their Skill Group. You should be able to find papers on rating systems involving rating volatility and rating deviations online to get a better idea about why our complex competitive matchmaking parameters cannot be represented as a single numeric value.

 

sauce: https://np.reddit.co...ranking/ckfhfir

Hearing this from a valve employee is the answer to all of your questions

Edited September 9, 2015 by UnPrePared_

[Shaman]

So it has changed from when I looked into it. I did not know but is good to know. Ty for letting me know.

[Johnmau]

Nice Answer that helped him alot.

 

thanks :^)

[Comic King]

To spare you of those long reads...

It works kind of like chess.

If you play with people of your rank, win and you gain enough Elo points to rank up after three of those wins.

Lose, and you have to win two more.

Playing with higher ranks, winning will give you maximum Elo.

Losing will take away a small portion. After 5 losses you MAY or MAY NOT derank.

Elo points can't be seen anywhere, so you're on your own about remembering your previous game results.

1st 2nd or bot fragger, almost doesn't matter if you win or lose.

You can both derank and rank up in a game that you lost, although I can't guarantee you the same for a victory.

Top fraggers can get deranked easily in a lost game, so if you are good but team is bad, you can blame them most of the time.

[Quadcore]

tl;dr you gotta win to rank up

[UnPrePared_]

tl;dr you gotta win to rank up

carry me please

[Binary]

I feel like it works sort of how the point system works in minigames but more complex. Playing against people your level results in your gaining points at a slower rate this leveling up slower.

 

But in mini games if you kill a top10 you get a lot more points. It's like that in MM, playing against higher levels (and doing good) results in fast rank ups.

 

I was GN3 when I ranked in, and took a good couple weeks to reach GNM even with top frags and winning. But when I partied up with friends who were MGE I went from GNM to MG2 in one day by playing good at their ranks.

[s73100]

Answer to title: it doesn't work. End of story.

[UnPrePared_]

[Iceyah]

been stuck at nova master lol, but i keep trying

[Shaman]

Yeah finally ranked to GNM here after someone on other team challenging me to see who could get more Zeus kills during a match. it is really odd.

[s73100]

Yeah finally ranked to GNM here after someone on other team challenging me to see who could get more Zeus kills during a match. it is really odd.

u will probably de-rank

[Shaman]

u will probably de-rank

Lol I've played about 15 games and I've lost about 6 of them since it happened and no de rank. I'm usually positive on kills and such.

[s73100]

Lol I've played about 15 games and I've lost about 6 of them since it happened and no de rank. I'm usually positive on kills and such.

lucky I win 10 rank up win 5 more, lose 1. De rank.