RNC v DNC

[Wingless]

Except he didn't do that in any of his posts. lol... did you even read em?

 

And no politics and religion do not cause most of the problems in society. I like to throw out grand over-arching statements too. Most of the problems in our society are caused by people. Not by the institutions those people create, just... the people. Blaming wide institutions (ones that society cannot exist without) for problems in a society is a cop-out to addressing actual problems that are caused once again by PEOPLE.

 

Guns don't kill people, stupid people with misguided convictions kill people.

[60Seconds]

holy shit billy you are one of the most bigoted people i have ever met in my life lol. the quicker you realize both parties are feeding lies and hate the more you'll realize... jeezes dude. you sit here and yell about how one side is the only one saying lies and hating and stereotyping but you're too closed minded to realize you're doing the EXACT same thing. just WOW bro. re-read over the stuff you've said in this thread.

Fact: both political parties suck

Fact: both current nominees suck

Fact: spewing your own hate and lies about other's hate and lies does nothing to help the situation OR try to get your POV across.

Maybe stating some facts with research and proof(numbers) to back them up will allow you to get your point across.

just lulz.

 

politics and religion is what causes the most problems in society.. If you want to debate it then keep your bigotry out of your discussion and say your opinions and your facts without attacking the other person..

 

How am I bigoted? I didn't really attack him. Sure I got a little passionate, but I never attacked him. The fact are that a lot of people lie, but most of those people reside within the Republican party. You've got Mitt Romney out there touting his business experience but always getting pissed when its used against him. Romney is full of lies, he is so pro-life that while he was at Bain Capital, he personally helped make profitable a company that disposed of aborted fetuses. Thats what the Republicans choose to ignore. No offense to any independents, but people who don't vote or vote for candidates who they know have no chances of winning (Ralph Nader) are part of the problem, because instead of voting for a person who can actually win, they cause him to lose and an even worse person to come to power.

 

Wingless, guns are accomplices to crimes. In America's justice system, accomplices are tried and convicted too.

[DarkMonotone]

And being one of Republican and Socialist ideas, I have to say last night at the RNC was one fail of a night. Having Clint Eastwood talk to a chair long enough to run Romneys' speech past 11 didn't look good on the news..

 

News headline: Clint Eastwood is crazy

 

Not really a good thing when your big night got fucked up hard.

Edited August 31, 2012 by DarkMonotone

[60Seconds]

And being one of Republican and Socialist ideas, I have to say last night at the RNC was one fail of a night. Having Clint Eastwood talk to a chair long enough to run Romneys' speech past 11 didn't look good on the news..

 

News headline: Clint Eastwood is crazy

 

Not really a good thing when your big night got fucked up hard.

 

I feel bad for Clint Eastwood, he just ruined his reputation. I like the HuffPost headline "DRUNK UNCLE HARRY"

[LazaHorse]

I feel bad for Clint Eastwood, he just ruined his reputation. I like the HuffPost headline "DRUNK UNCLE HARRY"

 

[DarkMonotone]

I feel bad for Clint Eastwood, he just ruined his reputation. I like the HuffPost headline "DRUNK UNCLE HARRY"

I don't think he ruined his reputation, however I do think he's ruined any reputation as being a political speaker. His movies are so awesome that I don't care what he does, he'll always be cool.

 

Also this thread escalated quickly

Edited August 31, 2012 by DarkMonotone

[Wingless]

Wingless, guns are accomplices to crimes. In America's justice system, accomplices are tried and convicted too.

 

Meh. I have seven objects on my desk right now that I could outright kill someone with in about 10 seconds or less, and only one of those is a knife. Better start prosecuting.

[60Seconds]

Meh. I have seven objects on my desk right now that I could outright kill someone with in about 10 seconds or less, and only one of those is a knife. Better start prosecuting.

 

I don't mean handguns, which are pretty dangerous too, but an assault rifle can do a lot more damage than a knife.

[DarkMonotone]

Although I'm very anti-gun control I do admit that guns were made for the sole purpose of killing people, because medieval generals seen it as an effective way to take out a knight or take out anything that runs in armor that normally wouldn't be touched as badly by a sword or an arrow.

[Plastered]

This thread is supposed to be geared towards the RNC & DNC not politics in general. Since the Democratic Convention hasn't even started yet, there is no need for Obama to even be brought up yet.

 

I thought Clint Eastwood's chair speech was true to his character but clearly

not appropriate for such an event. Rice's speech was very good and so was Ryan's.

 

I scoffed at Romney's remark about how the only thing Democrats remember Barack for was checking his name on the ballot.

[60Seconds]

This thread is supposed to be geared towards the RNC & DNC not politics in general. Since the Democratic Convention hasn't even started yet, there is no need for Obama to even be brought up yet.

 

I thought Clint Eastwood's chair speech was true to his character but clearly

not appropriate for such an event. Rice's speech was very good and so was Ryan's.

 

I scoffed at Romney's remark about how the only thing Democrats remember Barack for was checking his name on the ballot.

 

I was angered at Romney still pushing that same line of attack by saying that Obama wasn't an American. He was appealing to all of the racists in his party. He knows that Obama was born here, but he still pushes that line of attack. All in all, I think Romney was being the son of a bitch that he always was and is to this day. He is a dishonor to his father.

[Deadlock]

I'm worried that I'll catch fire when I smoke, said no military fueler ever.

these reflective belts are so stylish and life saving. Said no deployed member ever

[DarkMonotone]

Kimzy don't worry, the Republicans here think that all Europeans are socialists. They think that every country in Europe is communist. They hate free healthcare, they think that we should let people in a less desirable financial situation die in hospitals because their insurance companies don't want to pay for their operations or outright refuse to serve them because they have a pre-existing medical condition. Obamacare changed that, and the Republicans are mad. They think that the progressive taxes that you have are wrong and that its normal for wealthy people to pay 13% taxes just like Mitt Romney does. Oh sorry, we don't know that yet, because Mitt Romney hasn't released his tax returns. The tea partiers are following Romney and their ringleaders, the CEOs of the corporations who are avoiding taxes like drones because there is a black guy thats more powerful than them for the first time in their lives, and they can't stand it. Republicans also like to deny science. They don't believe in global warming, they also think that evolution is untrue, and want to teach our kids in public schools the same. They are whats keeping this grand country back.

Obamacare is bad mainly because the debt clock is at 16 trillion right now, but I suppose when you're that deep in the hole you should probably stop caring about trying to fix it. I do agree to some extent that taxes on the rich should probably be higher because once you have so much money there's not really a point in caring anymore. I would say that calling CEOs out as racists is very generalized without any facts to back it up, racism is like non-existent and is practically as extinct as hating gay people. Global Warming doesn't exactly have any facts to back it up either, every 10 years or so the Earth heats up and then cools down. I'm not more inclined to believe it just because Al Gore wrote a thousand speeches on it and the only reason why it's believed is because scientists think it's the result of global warming because we have more industrialization. Industrialization has been going on since the 1840's with the Industrial Revolution and if anything we have safer emissions now then we did back then, trees in Europe don't turn black and mutate moths anymore. Although I do find it a little ignorant on the Republicans part for denying Evolution, I don't regard it as science as it really isn't since we can't replicate it, test it, nor can we explain the origins of life. I'm more for teaching it as a more subjective truth subject, merely because for something to be considered science in my opinion and many others it needs to be something we can directly test and replication but we've been unable to do thus far. But don't get me wrong I'm not denying it I'm just stating that it can't be considered science..yet.

[60Seconds]

Obamacare is bad mainly because the debt clock is at 16 trillion right now, but I suppose when you're that deep in the hole you should probably stop caring about trying to fix it. I do agree to some extent that taxes on the rich should probably be higher because once you have so much money there's not really a point in caring anymore. I would say that calling CEOs out as racists is very generalized without any facts to back it up, racism is like non-existent and is practically as extinct as hating gay people. Global Warming doesn't exactly have any facts to back it up either, every 10 years or so the Earth heats up and then cools down. I'm not more inclined to believe it just because Al Gore wrote a thousand speeches on it and the only reason why it's believed is because scientists think it's the result of global warming because we have more industrialization. Industrialization has been going on since the 1840's with the Industrial Revolution and if anything we have safer emissions now then we did back then, trees in Europe don't turn black and mutate moths anymore. Although I do find it a little ignorant on the Republicans part for denying Evolution, I don't regard it as science as it really isn't since we can't replicate it, test it, nor can we explain the origins of life. I'm more for teaching it as a more subjective truth subject, merely because for something to be considered science in my opinion and many others it needs to be something we can directly test and replication but we've been unable to do thus far. But don't get me wrong I'm not denying it I'm just stating that it can't be considered science..yet.

 

So the national debt matters more than the lives of Americans? Obamacare if anything will help to reduce the debt by at least preventing the government from having to provide support to hospitals that can't afford to stay open because of patients who can't pay for their operations. Global Warming is a manmade problem, and Republicans want to make it worse by loosening emission controls. Maybe I went too far by accusing CEOs of being racist, but some are. The ones who were born into rich families for example. It boggles them that a black man who wasn't born in a rich family is now more powerful than them. Racism is existed, look at all the people who don't think Obama wasn't born here. And don't tell me that hating gay people doesn't exist, because Republicans don't want gay people to have the same civil rights that straight people do.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Billy Mays

[bort]

Obamacare is bad mainly because the debt clock is at 16 trillion right now, but I suppose when you're that deep in the hole you should probably stop caring about trying to fix it.

(1) The debt is a huge problem. The democrat's concept that deficit spending doesn't hurt anything is wrong. Why? Because we have to pay interest on our debt. Our interest payments each year are on the track to approach our GDP each year. When that happens, there is literally NO way to pay off the debt without slashing the operating budget (e.g. critical services).

 

(2) Obamacare is a good thing because it forces insurance companies to pay the bills for its customers. Period. That's all it does. Without Obamacare, insurance companies come up with every excuse to avoid paying the bills for its customers... All too often, they slink out of doing their JOB by pulling the "pre-existing condition" card; or the "high-risk individual" card; or the "uncovered procedure" card. This is extremely fucked up. People who need medical care get turned away because the insurance companies don't even allow them to buy health insurance; or if they already have insurance, they claim it's not good enough for the procedure they need to have. The GOP plan for both health insurance and medicare is to eliminate Obamacare and go to a privatized voucher-based system. That means (a) the insurance companies are responsible for providing your medical care and if they don't want to pay for your procedure too bad; ( you get a certain amount of your bill covered with a voucher. If the voucher is good for 500 dollars, but the insurance company charges 1000 dollars, they too bad for you. Oh by the way, the federal government cannot negotiate prices with the insurance companies. Thanks to congressmen who are fully bought and paid for by insurance lobbyists, we get laws such as the Medicare Modernization Act of 2003 (look it up) that prevents the federal government from negotiating prices for prescription drugs. In other words: the medicare program has to pay whatever cost the insurance companies set. Why? Because during the time the bill was on the floor, the insurance industry spent more than $140 million on lobbying and deployed at least 952 lobbyists.

 

I do agree to some extent that taxes on the rich should probably be higher because once you have so much money there's not really a point in caring anymore.

Actually taxes on the rich are at an all time historic low. You can thank the dynamic duo (G.W.Bush and Obama) for that. While people often state that Obama is "the most liberal left winger ever", he's really not. Anyone who says that is instantly red-flagged as someone who simply does not follow politics (Fox, Drudge, & Limbaugh excepted of course). The "liberal" things that Obama has done is (1) repealing don't ask/don't tell, (2) The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare); (3) the draw-down of the Iraq war. Let's not forget that he's sided with republican plans on many many many more occasions. Such as (1) extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy (2) expanded the war with the surge in Afghanistan; (3) increased the number of DEA raids on medical marijuana dispensaries; (4) not prosecuted any of the banking executives that caused the 2008 collapse; (5) not passed any gun control laws; the list goes on and on. These are all republican policies. Anyone who says Obama is a liberal president is either ignorant of the truth or purposefully lying. He is a moderate conservative by the definition of 50 years ago.

 

The democrats propose that taxes on the wealthy be normalized. That is, the tax rate on the wealthy and corporations is at an all time low. Democrats don't want to increase it; they want to reset it to where it should be. But of course, republicans spin it as class warfare and an attack on success. Such bull shit. If there is any "class warfare" going on, it's the rich getting everything they could possibly want and fucking over the middle class and the poor as much as possible because they can. And remember, even though Obama makes nice liberal speeches asking the rich to do their part, he's done nothing about it -- in fact as I already mentioned above, he extended the tax cuts.

 

Let's talk a bit about spending. Yes it's true that the national debt has raised over 5 trillion dollars since Obama came into office. But how much of that spending was caused by policies he enacted, and how much of it was caused by policies enacted by Bush? It turns out that all the things Obama has enacted (which can be categorized as [1] Stimulus, [2] two-year extension of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, [3] "other" descretionary spending) Net a total debt increase of under 1 trillion dollars. The rest of Obama's 5 trillion dollar debt increase came from policies enacted by Bush that carried over into Obama's term, including [1] the original Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, [2] two wars without tax increases to cover the costs, [3] other defense and non-defense spending.

 

In summary: (1) The republican party is the biggest fail ever. They are so fringe right, they cannot even be considered real republicans. (2) Obama is definitely not liberal, and if you still think that he is, you're clearly not paying attention to facts. Obama sides with the republicans more times than not. (3) The democrat party is no shining example of progress either. (4) The libertarians are a bunch of idiot retards who, if they had their way, would ensure that roads don't get paved; companies can get away with whatever they want and charge anything they want-- no oversight or enforcement of standards; if you get sick or injured-- go fuck yourself and die; if you have a kid with medical problems-- sucks to be you; hur hur its so great being self sufficient.

 

 

Global Warming doesn't exactly have any facts to back it up either, every 10 years or so the Earth heats up and then cools down. I'm not more inclined to believe it just because Al Gore wrote a thousand speeches on it and the only reason why it's believed is because scientists think it's the result of global warming because we have more industrialization.

Lol, maybe you should take a look at some graphs and numbers. You're not one of those people who ignore facts to fit your beliefs, are you? If you really had an open mind, you would find that there is a lot more evidence supporting man-made climate change than not. In fact, on the "not" side, there is practically zero evidence and just a bunch of denying.

 

Industrialization has been going on since the 1840's with the Industrial Revolution and if anything we have safer emissions now then we did back then

The amount of fossil fuel usage has increased just a tad since 1840, wouldn't you say?

[60Seconds]

(1) The debt is a huge problem. The democrat's concept that deficit spending doesn't hurt anything is wrong. Why? Because we have to pay interest on our debt. Our interest payments each year are on the track to approach our GDP each year. When that happens, there is literally NO way to pay off the debt without slashing the operating budget (e.g. critical services).

 

(2) Obamacare is a good thing because it forces insurance companies to pay the bills for its customers. Period. That's all it does. Without Obamacare, insurance companies come up with every excuse to avoid paying the bills for its customers... All too often, they slink out of doing their JOB by pulling the "pre-existing condition" card; or the "high-risk individual" card; or the "uncovered procedure" card. This is extremely fucked up. People who need medical care get turned away because the insurance companies don't even allow them to buy health insurance; or if they already have insurance, they claim it's not good enough for the procedure they need to have. The GOP plan for both health insurance and medicare is to eliminate Obamacare and go to a privatized voucher-based system. That means (a) the insurance companies are responsible for providing your medical care and if they don't want to pay for your procedure too bad; ( you get a certain amount of your bill covered with a voucher. If the voucher is good for 500 dollars, but the insurance company charges 1000 dollars, they too bad for you. Oh by the way, the federal government cannot negotiate prices with the insurance companies. Thanks to congressmen who are fully bought and paid for by insurance lobbyists, we get laws such as the Medicare Modernization Act of 2003 (look it up) that prevents the federal government from negotiating prices for prescription drugs. In other words: the medicare program has to pay whatever cost the insurance companies set. Why? Because during the time the bill was on the floor, the insurance industry spent more than $140 million on lobbying and deployed at least 952 lobbyists.

 

 

Actually taxes on the rich are at an all time historic low. You can thank the dynamic duo (G.W.Bush and Obama) for that. While people often state that Obama is "the most liberal left winger ever", he's really not. Anyone who says that is instantly red-flagged as someone who simply does not follow politics (Fox, Drudge, & Limbaugh excepted of course). The "liberal" things that Obama has done is (1) repealing don't ask/don't tell, (2) The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare); (3) the draw-down of the Iraq war. Let's not forget that he's sided with republican plans on many many many more occasions. Such as (1) extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy (2) expanded the war with the surge in Afghanistan; (3) increased the number of DEA raids on medical marijuana dispensaries; (4) not prosecuted any of the banking executives that caused the 2008 collapse; (5) not passed any gun control laws; the list goes on and on. These are all republican policies. Anyone who says Obama is a liberal president is either ignorant of the truth or purposefully lying. He is a moderate conservative by the definition of 50 years ago.

 

The democrats propose that taxes on the wealthy be normalized. That is, the tax rate on the wealthy and corporations is at an all time low. Democrats don't want to increase it; they want to reset it to where it should be. But of course, republicans spin it as class warfare and an attack on success. Such bull shit. If there is any "class warfare" going on, it's the rich getting everything they could possibly want and fucking over the middle class and the poor as much as possible because they can. And remember, even though Obama makes nice liberal speeches asking the rich to do their part, he's done nothing about it -- in fact as I already mentioned above, he extended the tax cuts.

 

Let's talk a bit about spending. Yes it's true that the national debt has raised over 5 trillion dollars since Obama came into office. But how much of that spending was caused by policies he enacted, and how much of it was caused by policies enacted by Bush? It turns out that all the things Obama has enacted (which can be categorized as [1] Stimulus, [2] two-year extension of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, [3] "other" descretionary spending) Net a total debt increase of under 1 trillion dollars. The rest of Obama's 5 trillion dollar debt increase came from policies enacted by Bush that carried over into Obama's term, including [1] the original Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, [2] two wars without tax increases to cover the costs, [3] other defense and non-defense spending.

 

In summary: (1) The republican party is the biggest fail ever. They are so fringe right, they cannot even be considered real republicans. (2) Obama is definitely not liberal, and if you still think that he is, you're clearly not paying attention to facts. Obama sides with the republicans more times than not. (3) The democrat party is no shining example of progress either. (4) The libertarians are a bunch of idiot retards who, if they had their way, would ensure that roads don't get paved; companies can get away with whatever they want and charge anything they want-- no oversight or enforcement of standards; if you get sick or injured-- go fuck yourself and die; if you have a kid with medical problems-- sucks to be you; hur hur its so great being self sufficient.

 

 

 

Lol, maybe you should take a look at some graphs and numbers. You're not one of those people who ignore facts to fit your beliefs, are you? If you really had an open mind, you would find that there is a lot more evidence supporting man-made climate change than not. In fact, on the "not" side, there is practically zero evidence and just a bunch of denying.

 

 

The amount of fossil fuel usage has increased just a tad since 1840, wouldn't you say?

 

Bort, I think that its unfair to attack Obama over taxes because the only reason that he extended the tax cuts was because the Republicans were holding the middle class hostage and wanted to drop the tax cuts for everyone if wealthy people didn't get their tax cuts. I can honestly say, as a moderately wealthy person, that I don't need a tax cut, and neither does anyone else in my income level or above. The Republicans always bullshit and say that giving tax cuts will cause wealthy people to hire more employees. Thats complete utter bullshit. Wanna know what I did when I got my tax return? I went out and bought a new Rolex. My co-worker went and leased himself a new car. The list goes on and on. Republicans are nothing like what they were even in 2008. I know many Republicans, including former Florida governor Charlie Crist, who feel that the party has left them. The Republican Party now caters to right-wing nutjobs who are led by Glenn Beck, Karl Rove, and Rush Limbaugh.

[Clark]

I'm sorry if this was addressed already.........

 

WHERE'S MALKIN WHEN WE NEED HIM TO MAKE THIS DISCUSSION COMPLETELY RATIONAL?!?!?!

[Elephant]

bort wins

[DarkMonotone]

(1) The debt is a huge problem. The democrat's concept that deficit spending doesn't hurt anything is wrong. Why? Because we have to pay interest on our debt. Our interest payments each year are on the track to approach our GDP each year. When that happens, there is literally NO way to pay off the debt without slashing the operating budget (e.g. critical services).

 

(2) Obamacare is a good thing because it forces insurance companies to pay the bills for its customers. Period. That's all it does. Without Obamacare, insurance companies come up with every excuse to avoid paying the bills for its customers... All too often, they slink out of doing their JOB by pulling the "pre-existing condition" card; or the "high-risk individual" card; or the "uncovered procedure" card. This is extremely fucked up. People who need medical care get turned away because the insurance companies don't even allow them to buy health insurance; or if they already have insurance, they claim it's not good enough for the procedure they need to have. The GOP plan for both health insurance and medicare is to eliminate Obamacare and go to a privatized voucher-based system. That means (a) the insurance companies are responsible for providing your medical care and if they don't want to pay for your procedure too bad; ( you get a certain amount of your bill covered with a voucher. If the voucher is good for 500 dollars, but the insurance company charges 1000 dollars, they too bad for you. Oh by the way, the federal government cannot negotiate prices with the insurance companies. Thanks to congressmen who are fully bought and paid for by insurance lobbyists, we get laws such as the Medicare Modernization Act of 2003 (look it up) that prevents the federal government from negotiating prices for prescription drugs. In other words: the medicare program has to pay whatever cost the insurance companies set. Why? Because during the time the bill was on the floor, the insurance industry spent more than $140 million on lobbying and deployed at least 952 lobbyists.

 

 

Actually taxes on the rich are at an all time historic low. You can thank the dynamic duo (G.W.Bush and Obama) for that. While people often state that Obama is "the most liberal left winger ever", he's really not. Anyone who says that is instantly red-flagged as someone who simply does not follow politics (Fox, Drudge, & Limbaugh excepted of course). The "liberal" things that Obama has done is (1) repealing don't ask/don't tell, (2) The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare); (3) the draw-down of the Iraq war. Let's not forget that he's sided with republican plans on many many many more occasions. Such as (1) extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy (2) expanded the war with the surge in Afghanistan; (3) increased the number of DEA raids on medical marijuana dispensaries; (4) not prosecuted any of the banking executives that caused the 2008 collapse; (5) not passed any gun control laws; the list goes on and on. These are all republican policies. Anyone who says Obama is a liberal president is either ignorant of the truth or purposefully lying. He is a moderate conservative by the definition of 50 years ago.

 

The democrats propose that taxes on the wealthy be normalized. That is, the tax rate on the wealthy and corporations is at an all time low. Democrats don't want to increase it; they want to reset it to where it should be. But of course, republicans spin it as class warfare and an attack on success. Such bull shit. If there is any "class warfare" going on, it's the rich getting everything they could possibly want and fucking over the middle class and the poor as much as possible because they can. And remember, even though Obama makes nice liberal speeches asking the rich to do their part, he's done nothing about it -- in fact as I already mentioned above, he extended the tax cuts.

 

Let's talk a bit about spending. Yes it's true that the national debt has raised over 5 trillion dollars since Obama came into office. But how much of that spending was caused by policies he enacted, and how much of it was caused by policies enacted by Bush? It turns out that all the things Obama has enacted (which can be categorized as [1] Stimulus, [2] two-year extension of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, [3] "other" descretionary spending) Net a total debt increase of under 1 trillion dollars. The rest of Obama's 5 trillion dollar debt increase came from policies enacted by Bush that carried over into Obama's term, including [1] the original Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, [2] two wars without tax increases to cover the costs, [3] other defense and non-defense spending.

 

In summary: (1) The republican party is the biggest fail ever. They are so fringe right, they cannot even be considered real republicans. (2) Obama is definitely not liberal, and if you still think that he is, you're clearly not paying attention to facts. Obama sides with the republicans more times than not. (3) The democrat party is no shining example of progress either. (4) The libertarians are a bunch of idiot retards who, if they had their way, would ensure that roads don't get paved; companies can get away with whatever they want and charge anything they want-- no oversight or enforcement of standards; if you get sick or injured-- go fuck yourself and die; if you have a kid with medical problems-- sucks to be you; hur hur its so great being self sufficient.

 

 

 

Lol, maybe you should take a look at some graphs and numbers. You're not one of those people who ignore facts to fit your beliefs, are you? If you really had an open mind, you would find that there is a lot more evidence supporting man-made climate change than not. In fact, on the "not" side, there is practically zero evidence and just a bunch of denying.

 

 

The amount of fossil fuel usage has increased just a tad since 1840, wouldn't you say?

I rest my case on this, that's some pretty good information there and I retract my original statement. However I don't think I'm really sold on the whole Global Warming idea.

[60Seconds]

I rest my case on this, that's some pretty good information there and I retract my original statement. However I don't think I'm really sold on the whole Global Warming idea.

 

[Jake]

This thread is still here.....?

 

Needs to be locked and thrown to the bottom of the ocean. lol

 

I don't vote, that way i can complain about the guy who won, because i didn't vote for him. =D

[60Seconds]

This thread is still here.....?

 

Needs to be locked and thrown to the bottom of the ocean. lol

 

I don't vote, that way i can complain about the guy who won, because i didn't vote for him.

 

Lets wait until after the DNC to lock it.

[bort]

Obama is known to progressives as "The Great Compromiser". Instead of fighting for the progressive policies that his base elected him for, he compromises with the republicans -- who, by the way, demonize and spread lies about him as thanks for the favors.

 

By the way, I believe when you say the republicans were "holding the middle class hostage", you are referring to them refusing to pass a bill that raises the debt ceiling, yes? If so, Obama could have raised the debt ceiling at any time with an executive order. Congress is not needed to raise the debt ceiling. The debt ceiling has been raised over 100 times since 1917; 75 times since 1962. Examples:

• 6 times under Clinton,
  
• 7 times under G. W. Bush,
  
• 4 times under Obama (the 4th one was the one that caused all this "holding hostage" hoopla in the media around the July 2011 timeframe).

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL31967.pdf

 

If the debt ceiling is not raised, the country defaults on payments to its creditor. It's not good for that to happen for a number of reasons, most of them slightly exaggerated (like oh no! the world markets will crash!), but there's this one little hitch: The 14th amendment says, among other things, "The validity of the public debt of the United States ... shall not be questioned.", which means it's unconstitutional to default. So the very premise of the debt ceiling is itself a moot point.

 

If you think the US is spending too much, that's a different issue. This issue: about whether or not to raise the debt ceiling... was about whether or not to pay our creditor after August 2nd 2011. Of course we have to pay them; we've already borrowed the money!

 

I would be weary of supporting a party (Republicans) who threaten a measure (not to raise the debt ceiling), [which would be unconstitutional and essentially ruin the US Dollar's value if the country defaults], as leverage to get the cuts they want. I would be even more weary of a party (Democrats) that are so stupid as to believe that bluff and forfeit their own sacred cows of Medicare and Social Security.

 

The debt ceiling has to be raised whenever appropriations bills are passed that bring our total debt past the current limit. Don't let politicians fool you into thinking it has anything to do with the country's big budget, or that an administration that raises it is a spendthrift. Both sides raise it all the time.

 

Btw, another republican hypocrite at it's finest: The republic-lead house initiated all the appropriations bills that authorized spending on various things (wars, stimulus, bail-outs) that actually raise the debt... Then when it comes time to actually paying it, they try to make the president look bad by blocking the debt ceiling, which needed to be raised in order to pay for all the things they authorized.

Edited September 1, 2012 by bort

[AnonyHorse]

Way too much work being put into these posts. Politics are dumb.

[bort]

 

Baby steps, my dear sir. baby steps

 

You are a good sport, DarkMonotone