Muse Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Seriously. Every damn country is in debt to something. Why does it even matter anymore? Can someone explain this to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkMonotone Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 It doesn't really matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJK Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 humans greed did i miss anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkMonotone Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Only countries that aren't in debt to my knowledge is China and Germany. Germany because they just bailed the fuck out of Greece and China because they loan out tons of money to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muse Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 Exactly what I thought. So basically it says to me that when ---- voted to help --- but the debt changed, I'm basically listening to someone's anus going "bwap bwap bwap"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajolt Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Why aren't these in a blog? Just wondering... OT: Debt matters because say I go to you Me: Hey muse can I borrow $60 bucks so I can buy guild wars 2? You: SURRRRREEEEE (derp) Me: thanks I'll pay it back 4 months later: You: Where's the money I loaned you? Me: Oh I'll pay it back. <6 months later> You: Umm where's mah $$ Me: I don't have any monie$. <1 year> Same interaction <2, 3, 4 years later> Same interaction. Hope you don't hold grudges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Debt when it comes to macroeconomics is not the same thing as microeconomics muse, it's really not a big deal and is actually expected for large superpowers to spend more than they take in, and the whole 'china owns all of our debt' is a lie see: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/ss/How-Much-US-Debt-Does-China-Own.htm Despite such joking, the truth is the bulk of the $14.3 trillion U.S. debt - $9.8 trillion in all - is owned by the American people and its government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkMonotone Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Debt when it comes to macroeconomics is not the same thing as microeconomics muse, it's really not a big deal and is actually expected for large superpowers to spend more than they take in, and the whole 'china owns all of our debt' is a lie see: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/ss/How-Much-US-Debt-Does-China-Own.htm I was not implying that they owned all of our debt either, I stated that they "gave tons of money to us." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muse Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 Why aren't these in a blog? Just wondering... OT: Debt matters because say I go to you Me: Hey muse can I borrow $60 bucks so I can buy guild wars 2? You: SURRRRREEEEE (derp) Me: thanks I'll pay it back 4 months later: You: Where's the money I loaned you? Me: Oh I'll pay it back. <6 months later> You: Umm where's mah $$ Me: I don't have any monie$. <1 year> Same interaction <2, 3, 4 years later> Same interaction. Hope you don't hold grudges. Okay, I understand this, and this has happened to me before, but I'm sure I've done the same to someone else. Like how I bought my friend Borderlands and then someone different lent me a condom, I don't want to pay the guy back for a condom when I don't get the borderlands money back. Then other factors come in: maybe I didn't ask for the condom, it was given to me, but they still want money back. Its poopy and I don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I was not implying that they owned all of our debt either, I stated that they "gave tons of money to us." I wasn't even talking to you? I was posting to op. Here muse, he explains it pretty well without being boring Also: Why aren't these in a blog? Just wondering... OT: Debt matters because say I go to you Me: Hey muse can I borrow $60 bucks so I can buy guild wars 2? You: SURRRRREEEEE (derp) Me: thanks I'll pay it back 4 months later: You: Where's the money I loaned you? Me: Oh I'll pay it back. <6 months later> You: Umm where's mah $$ Me: I don't have any monie$. <1 year> Same interaction <2, 3, 4 years later> Same interaction. Hope you don't hold grudges. This is microeconomics not macroeconomics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajolt Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 This is microeconomics not macroeconomics In terms of macroeconomics, as you know, we can't pay back with money, we pay back with manufacturing goods. So, essentially, in order to pay off our debt, say China supplied the US new uniform for every soldier. The US, in return, exports the same value of oil seeds to china. (Essentially, you just bought me Guild Wars 2, and I paid you back) but on a much, much much much larger scale. So, China exports here and because of that, we'd have the obligation to export back. When we don't have enough resource at the immediate trade site, this is where debt comes in. We now owe them, the debt came because say we needed those uniforms and they needed oil, but we barely had enough to for our population, we say "We'll pay you back" Tl;dr Debt is owed money and we need money to work. No money = no motivation = no supply high demand = high debt cuz everyone there works, so they can export we can't. Tl;dr for both Just read what I wrote lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 So, essentially, in order to pay off our debt, say China supplied the US new uniform for every soldier. The US, in return, exports the same value of oil seeds to china. (Essentially, you just bought me Guild Wars 2, and I paid you back) but on a much, much much much larger scale. So, China exports here and because of that, we'd have the obligation to export back. When we don't have enough resource at the immediate trade site, this is where debt comes in. We now owe them, the debt came because say we needed those uniforms and they needed oil, but we barely had enough to for our population, we say "We'll pay you back" Again this is essentially microeconomics on a larger scale is what you are saying, but that's not even what goes on. Most of the debt you see people talking about that china owns is through the buying of bonds. And china cannot just go tomorrow and go, we want all of our money from our bond purchases back plus .17 interest, it doesn't work that way. Most of the debt you see people talk about is owned by federal government through systems such a social security which the federal government pays another part of the federal government to run, basically paying for itself ( I really don't feel like going into much detail on this) and the citizens of the usa. Also, the usa owns a lot of chins debt too, for instance for every dollar we owe china, china owe us around 90 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 humansgreed did i miss anything I read his question, and This was my first thought. Greed. WE all want fare return for what we have done. Kindness without reward seems to be a thing of the past. AND ITS FUCKING RETARTED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vetman Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I'm awaiting Enigma's response to this question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Wings Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Very many american families spend more money than they actually have and we wonder why our government does this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperChargerFan Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 The debt is created by loans that need to be paid off. The majority, although, is to the American people, but the scary side of it is debt owed to foreign countries, like China. Here's the breakdown: It's kenyesian economics, but a little broken. It states that as we grow as a country, we are supposed to raise taxes (cause we can pay it) to refuel the government and lower then in economic recession. Lots of people like the latter, being that you have lower taxes as opposed to pay cuts (Classical economics), the problem, politicians want to be re-elected, so they won't raise the taxes in the good seasons. This results in a big fat - in the income of the government, creating debt. Like jajolt said, its really annoying if someone takes your money and doesn't pay it back. Well, we aren't giving our government money that it 'lends' us during economic downturns. Hence, the government is down LOTS of money that it needs to fund things such as roads, schools, etc. It has to make money somewhere, so it has to loan money from the citizens, thus creating the debt. The problem is, this isn't enough, cause when the country has nothing, it can't really draw from its citizens to get money. It has to import more than it exports to obtain more goods, which destroys the balance of trade and makes debt. The government WILL have to find a way to pay the money off, unless everyone wants to just call it off (they wont ). So, in review Debt=Money Owed Low Taxes are low income (governmentally) government needs money gov takes from citizens (loans/to be payed back) gov needs money when citizens have none: balance of trade disrupted, foreign debt created has to be paid back ...tick...tick...tick... Now, the last part, which is the solution. Unfortunately, heres the problem. Economist say that Kenyesian economics will need to be replaced, much like how Kenyesian economics replaced classical economics. The brightest minds in the world struggle tremendously with this question, its not a matter of we just need to do it. so...yeah... its a time bomb people, and it's ready to go off... oh and btw... This is microeconomics not macroeconomics hes just trying to explain the BASICS of debt, not the situation that we are in. but yes, his statement was micro, country debt is macro, and we are f*cked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 its a time bomb people, and it's ready to go off... You act like this is actually a problem in the USA, despite what you hear on fox news; it's not. This statement right here shows the worry people have for no reason, its like you are implying that China and UK can call us up tomorrow and ask for the money they spent on all of their 20 year bonds, yeah right. I also hope you know that it is expected for a government to spend more than they take in, the same goes with China revenues: $1.646 trillionexpenditures: $1.729 trillion (2011 est.) Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html Also, I hope you know as china buys a lot of our bonds, we buy a lot of theirs; for every 1 dollar we owe them, they owe us around 80 cents. Not that big of a deal now that you actually think about it huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperChargerFan Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 First, I don't get all my news from a biased source Second, It's money we (US) owe. May not be due today, but... Third, it collects interest. Nobody gives out money for free. Fourth, economist are predicting that one day the system that America and China have developed is going to break, causing a major global crisis. Fifth, spending more than you make, on BOTH a micro and macro level will cause so SERIOUS economical problems! Sixth, STFU kid and pay the trillions we are in debt or help us out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Fourth, economist are predicting that one day the system that America and China have developed is going to break, causing a major global crisis. Fifth, spending more than you make, on BOTH a micro and macro level will cause so SERIOUS economical problems! Sixth, STFU kid and pay the trillions we are in debt or help us out! Source for 4/5 and on 6th please don't resort to ad hominem attacks, it just looks bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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