ChrisNoobSlayer Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 (edited) Alright, so after 14 hours of listening to soundtracks of Halo, Black Mesa Source, L4D2, and etc., I have completed my first, detailed map. After receiving some suggestions I've modified the map with many of the suggestions in the map. Name: zs_abandoned_subway_v1 Description: A group of humans are trapped in the urban passages of an underground subway station. Humans hold out in numerous locations to survive. Requirements: -Garry's Mod -Half Life 2 -Counter Strike Source Features: -2 subway stations/human spawns -In-game music -4 secret rooms -Many barricading locations Pictures: http://steamcommunit...s/?id=211708544 http://steamcommunit...s/?id=211708601 http://steamcommunit...s/?id=211708677 http://steamcommunit...s/?id=211708788 http://steamcommunit...s/?id=211708905 Workshop Link: http://steamcommunit...s/?id=211694123 Direct Link: https://www.mediafir...h5zr5ncq13h4ki0 Edited January 2, 2014 by ReaperRaptor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharp_shooter Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Will be looking through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youthedog Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 The ringing and alarm noise are really annoying. Texturing/lighting is really bland and could use more variety in design and detail considering each station is almost the exact same. I also didn't hear any music whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souly Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 looks cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNoobSlayer Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 The ringing and alarm noise are really annoying. Texturing/lighting is really bland and could use more variety in design and detail considering each station is almost the exact same. I also didn't hear any music whatsoever. Yeah I mean it's obviously not the final version, there are a lot of things I need to fix, but the music I could've sworn I did indeed use pakrat to put the music inside it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharp_shooter Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Alright I ran through it and found several balance issues that hopefully will be addressed in v2. flickering lights are nice 1. can easily be prop blocked to prevent zombies from walking through, plus I don't doubt someone will find a way to kill others with them http://prntscr.com/2ezh0u 2. I had trouble moving this door out of the way and just ended up noclipping through, possibly set it up easier? http://prntscr.com/2ezhcn 3. Consider an invisible ramp right above those, getting stuck on rocks isn't fun (helms deep in l4d2 has it on their ramp and it's quite nice) http://prntscr.com/2ezhj5 4. Hard to see but I had to crouch going up the vents (ones at an angle) I'm sure increasing size would fix that. http://prntscr.com/2ezhod 5. Hallway is OP with the prop count maybe add flickering light for effect? http://prntscr.com/2ezhuc 6. Too many props for such a small doorway http://prntscr.com/2ezi25 7. getting off the ladder is awkward with the vent right there, possibly have more vent exits for zombies to plot their attack. http://prntscr.com/2ezi9l 8. Too many props for only two entrances that are rather small. http://prntscr.com/2ezidj 9. For those above with the vents could the windows be floor to ceiling and be breakable? It would make it much harder on humans. 10. How am I supposed to get over this without prop climbing or using noclip? http://prntscr.com/2ezj46 11. NPC's are a bad idea and shoot everything. Not fun for the new player to die from. http://prntscr.com/2ezjaw 12. Too many useful props in the secret room, entrance is too small. http://prntscr.com/2ezjse 13. This elevator secret room is rather nice. http://prntscr.com/2ezk41 14. Concerning secret rooms, most that we have on the server are either OP nightmares or troll haven. Lets try in the future for all maps from everyone to have secret rooms that are for the gag and not for the win. Mall of the dead for example is a perfect example, it gives you a room you can enter through a teleporter but you can't leave. Possibly throw in some humor in it, reference to a funny movie, someone in HG, maybe your own life experience. 15. Zombie spawns from what I saw is only one and that one can easily be abused. Consider dynamic. In your reply which I have no doubt you'll be doing. To save yourself time in quoting just refer to the number because I'm pretty sure you'll run out of quotes. That's my consensus thus far, I'll leave the constructive criticism of the map style to more experienced people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Marche Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 The damn alarm means I will never go near those places ever. Human spawn shouldn't have boards on the door, or a free knife/plank should be available. The human spawn and similiar area across the map are way too strong. Long hallway with built-in anti-bonemesh feature.Bring a large base prop here and a few small ones and it's game over. All rooms have hallways for doorways. These make even the simpliest barricades plausible winning solutions and the map far too far in human favour. Add headcrab vents or something else to de-power all rooms. The elevator starts with a prop in it. I shouldn't have to say what this means, I got propkilled testing this, haha. The secret room in the middle of the map is old-stadium overpowered. Long hallway with tons of great cading props built in, and hard to reach for zombies. Revamp, remove eseentially all props (regular zombies can't get there pretty much) or add another method of entry. You should put another zombie spawn at the same spot on the opposite station. Without a decent spawn point, zombies would be swamped to get to the far side cading spots without one. The vent secret room is still very strong, despite the added vents. I could foresee balance issues here as well. Potentially a platform above the middle area with the two secret rooms for zombie spawn, should the last survivors be there. This should help the OP problem a bit. The entire map is hard to get around without a boomstick. The entire map is too white. You should try using some darker ambient colours. That's it for criticisms. I second essentially everything sharp said, especially regarding secret rooms. Something inbetween gimmicky and useful is always the best. The secret room with the benches is pretty nice, should see some unique layouts there. The bathrooms are pretty cool. Unsure if lag will be a problem there. You have a nice base set up, and there's lots of potential if you can factor in everything we've both suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNoobSlayer Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 Thank you for your suggestions, I'm getting on to those right away, and I should have another version setup for download later on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Marche Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Some of the props on the map get damaged when they are walked into. I personally find this hilarious and don't think it should be fixed, but you should be aware of it. Some of the rooms have to be jumped to from a ledge, and I guarantee that will lead to less and less zombies attacking. The fixes are nice and the map looks much better. Great job there. Bosses can spawn inside the wall of zombie spawn (this only happened to me once, and I'm unsure of the details since the perosn who got stuck isn't on to ask) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNoobSlayer Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 The post has been updated, as well as the map, it now has a workshop link that you are able to subscribe to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharp_shooter Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 If you could have a direct download that would be great. Easier to change out versions of the map and share. Plus that's what's put on the server anyways, we don't (can't) use workshop for maps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNoobSlayer Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Direct link has been added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNoobSlayer Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Alright, so I've been wondering: Where's my map as far as getting on the server goes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharp_shooter Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Right now not happening. When balance issues have been worked out and potential exploitable areas removed it will be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharp_shooter Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Sirens still present and rather annoying, yes they stop but it's irritating. Possibly lower the volume so it's present but isn't as distracting. Maybe have part of the divider collapse to feel more like the after effect of the zombie invasion. http://prntscr.com/2grkdf No practictal secret rooms http://prntscr.com/2grlh6 Now that these props are immovable this can easily be exploited as a barricade. http://prntscr.com/2grlxy http://prntscr.com/2grm92 Still would prefer an invisible ramp here to prevent anyone from getting stuck http://prntscr.com/2grmeb still have to crouch to climb those vents http://prntscr.com/2grmmt Room design is better http://prntscr.com/2grmzo Doorway length is good but if the width was the same as the previous version it would be better http://prntscr.com/2grn9i Windows still don't break (would balance out those rooms http://prntscr.com/2grnpx Still awkward to get up with the vent right there. Also why would you have a ladder in meeting room? http://prntscr.com/2gro2i Having multiple vent exits is good http://prntscr.com/2groh3 but hard to attack a specific one if zombies coming from the other direction are mowed down as they pass another vent. Solution would be to make the vent exit wall-wide so survivors have a harder time defending. Prop reduction is good, harder to barricade means more fun. http://prntscr.com/2grpkh This is long and boring. Add a collapse or two, an overturned train or some fires. Having a long walk with little to no terrain change is boring. http://prntscr.com/2gru6s Keep in mind I have yet to look at zombie spawns but I suggest looking into something along the lines of area17 movement system for zombies if you're going to have a long linear map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNoobSlayer Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Map has been updated with more fixes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharp_shooter Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I like that you added a ramp here but now you've run into another issue. http://prntscr.com/2gufnp Also the doors removed from the train was a good idea Still have to crouch to walk up vents http://prntscr.com/2gug1u Would prefer this wider Personally think the wall should be destroyable on both sides. Lots of health but destroyable. http://prntscr.com/2gugvw Windows break, good. http://prntscr.com/2guhf4 Though these don't http://prntscr.com/2guhp0 No variation at all on the tracks. http://prntscr.com/2guimm http://prntscr.com/2guivl Take time to edit your map, variation. Don't just quickly edit to meet the bare minimum just because you want it on the server. It not only needs to be balanced but it needs to look good. Ladder placement is off center, too many ladders. No variation in those long tracks. Too few places to barricade. Right now there's one place and that place has the vents. Right now it's OP and humans are guaranteed to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNoobSlayer Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 I like that you added a ramp here but now you've run into another issue. http://prntscr.com/2gufnp Also the doors removed from the train was a good idea Still have to crouch to walk up vents http://prntscr.com/2gug1u Would prefer this wider Personally think the wall should be destroyable on both sides. Lots of health but destroyable. http://prntscr.com/2gugvw Windows break, good. http://prntscr.com/2guhf4 Though these don't http://prntscr.com/2guhp0 No variation at all on the tracks. http://prntscr.com/2guimm http://prntscr.com/2guivl Take time to edit your map, variation. Don't just quickly edit to meet the bare minimum just because you want it on the server. It not only needs to be balanced but it needs to look good. Ladder placement is off center, too many ladders. No variation in those long tracks. Too few places to barricade. Right now there's one place and that place has the vents. Right now it's OP and humans are guaranteed to win. Just to address a few points: Still have to crouch to walk up vents It's a vent. It's not made for human passage. Ladder placement is off center It's irrelevant to balance and look but whatever. Too few places to barricade I can name a lot of places to barricade The 2 subway stations The 4 bathrooms The 2 elevator rooms The Fire Room The Vending Machine Room The 2 control rooms across the subway stations So far that's at least 12 places, not counting inside those rooms. Right now there's one place and that place has the vents Look above. End of discussion. So in my opinion, I don't really need to fix the amount of barricading places, I only need to fix minor details and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharp_shooter Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Look above. End of discussion. So in my opinion, I don't really need to fix the amount of barricading places, I only need to fix minor details and stuff. Either you balance the map or it won't be considered. We aren't placing a map on the server with balance issues and one that lacks detail. Your map has been here a little over a week, it is considered in community testing. We are here to offer explanation why some areas a bad and others good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleTommy42 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 This is Billy Mays here and I approve this map. Also Get out of my swamp. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNoobSlayer Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Once again, the map has been edited, newest version available via workshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharp_shooter Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Every screenshot is here for a reason Still broken in terms of seeing through the world. http://prntscr.com/2gxbbk Could it be strectched out to encompass that rock? http://prntscr.com/2gxbic No variation at all on the tracks. http://prntscr.com/2guimm http://prntscr.com/2guivl Improved with a train but it's just an obsticle. Having a long walk with little to no terrain change is boring. Doorway length is good but if the width was the same as the previous version it would be better http://prntscr.com/2grn9i Balancing it to make humans weaker in that area. It's a vent. It's not made for human passage. Zombies are the same height as humans, if we can't pass through without crouching neither can they, this includes poison zombies. One other thing, these "bullcrap-fixes" are what's going to be the deciding factor on letting your map on the server. If it looks bland and is not balanced it can't be added. Not really liking your attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNoobSlayer Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Every screenshot is here for a reason Still broken in terms of seeing through the world. http://prntscr.com/2gxbbk Could it be strectched out to encompass that rock? http://prntscr.com/2gxbic Improved with a train but it's just an obsticle. Balancing it to make humans weaker in that area. Zombies are the same height as humans, if we can't pass through without crouching neither can they, this includes poison zombies. One other thing, these "bullcrap-fixes" are what's going to be the deciding factor on letting your map on the server. If it looks bland and is not balanced it can't be added. Not really liking your attitude. I'm not pulling an attitude. I'm just addressing points I think are wrong or irrelevant. I added the bullshit reasonings part because if people are giving my map 4 out of 5 stars without pointing out any real problems like out-of-the-map exploits, I think it's fine, and so do the subscribers. And just to address even more points(wheres Billy Mays to say BUT WAIT THERES MORE). Zombies are the same height as humans, if we can't pass through without crouching neither can they, this includes poison zombies. It's only an issue if they can't get through the vents at all. Improved with a train but it's just an obsticle. Interesting how you mention the map and how you have a long walk and stuff and how it's boring, when back many months ago, when subway stations(or it might've been transit) was APPROVED for the server, it was like my map, there wasn't really anything on the train tracks besides the damn trains. One other thing, these "bullcrap-fixes" are what's going to be the deciding factor on letting your map on the server. If it looks bland and is not balanced it can't be added. Not really liking your attitude. 1. About bullcrap fixes, look at what I first said 2. About looking bland, look what I said comparing subway stations 3. About my "attitude", look at the bullcrap fixes part. In my opinion, the map is fine, the only change I think is a real change is the nodraw ramp, besides that, the map is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharp_shooter Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The way I see it is if you can't fix issues with the map and get it to the standards we have for the server it won't be added. When you fix what needs to be fixed it will be reviewed for the server, until then it's a no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizon Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Raptor I don't see why you are giving Sharp this demeanor while so-called "helping us with a map" If the map is not up to par with OUR specs why would we put it on the server just for users to complain when something is wrong or glitched? Calm down please and stop taking this so personally. I'm not pulling an attitude. I'm just addressing points I think are wrong or irrelevant. I added the bullshit reasonings part because if people are giving my map 4 out of 5 stars without pointing out any real problems like out-of-the-map exploits, I think it's fine, and so do the subscribers. And just to address even more points(wheres Billy Mays to say BUT WAIT THERES MORE). What you might think is wrong and irrelevant isn't the same to us. We have different regulations and standards for our servers, if you want your map to be used "WORK WITH" Sharp instead of fighting with him. It's only an issue if they can't get through the vents at all. Fix it to where humans and zombies can both move through. Enough Said. Interesting how you mention the map and how you have a long walk and stuff and how it's boring, when back many months ago, when subway stations(or it might've been transit) was APPROVED for the server, it was like my map, there wasn't really anything on the train tracks besides the damn trains. Yes they were approved for the server but back then you must remember we didn't have updated maps whatsoever and lack of coders/map editors. Trains.....either make them useful for both sides to use or another method. 1. About bullcrap fixes, look at what I first said 2. About looking bland, look what I said comparing subway stations 3. About my "attitude", look at the bullcrap fixes part. In my opinion, the map is fine, the only change I think is a real change is the nodraw ramp, besides that, the map is fine. 1. Don't be smart about this, no one likes smart asses with attitudes. 2. Try to give some effort on working with Sharp to make it better while still comparing the maps. 3. Understand people can get annoying with saying this needs to be fixed etc... when it's really doesn't need to in your opinion but again open your mind and try to make a solution. We have higher standards when it comes to releasing maps onto our ZS server, try to keep that in mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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