[Zombie Survival] 09/01/2015 Update Balancing Suggestions

[->SK<-]

Indeed the tier system does take away fun from a lot of veterans out here as strong weapons cannot be obtained soon enough.

 

However there's a concern I would like to point out: what happen if zombies are getting over-boomsticked? (even though boomstick party is rather rare I know)

 

One other significant feature with the tier system is, I believe, decrease population loss. Not many love to be zombie, and when they are initial zombie getting over-killed, they leave. I bet many have seen 50 human vs 2 zombies over here, forcing some hg members to suicide to get the game to continue.

 

 

Of course taking away the fun still suck (I can't get my good o stalker anymore in wave 2 intermission rip) and the tier system is killing the already-weak human team as seen in some recent games.

 

So here is my suggestion: a dynamic price system. It is as simple as it sound, high tier weapon cost more in early game and decrease with wave and infliction progression. I believe that will still support the idea of balance with tier system, by discouraging "op" weapons in early round with increased cost; while if Mr. veterans REALLY DAMN WANT DAT BOOMSTICK they have the option to pay up for it.

 

All possibilities will be explored. I will not leaving anything to chance.

[Awesome dude]

[/size]

FUN > PROFIT

 

Nope, most players were carry the points.

 

Point > Fun

[ForrestMarkX]

Your only options with the weapon tiers is one of these, It gets unlocked at wave 3 but it gets nerfed to oblivion, it stays at wave 5 and 50% infliction, or it gets unlocked on wave 3 but a zombie powerful enough to counter is unlocked aswell, You're being incredibly one sided with it as the game has to be fun for BOTH let me say it again BOTH teams. In the original ZS Boomstick was made as a high tier weapon built for crowd control along with the impaler and a boss killer getting it on wave 3 completely breaks the balance

 

Do I need to remind you of Oscar on pub?

 

But I digress due to popular demand all weapons have been moved down a tier so boomstick is tier 4 grim is tier 5

 

The point system has been adjusted aswell here is the multipliers. Wave 4 = 1.2x, Wave 5 = 1.5x, Wave 6 = 1.8x

Edited September 3, 2015 by ForrestMarkX

[Capt.America]

Zombine crashes my game can anyone fix that?

[Anzeis]

• Unlock weapons 1 wave early (Ender and Ackbar at wave 3? Seriously?)
  
• Damage multiplier for lower tier weapons on higher waves. (eg: Tier 1 weapons get a 1.2x damage multiplier on wave 2, 1.4x on wave 3, 2x damage on wave 6). This would make the game more dynamic, I like the ricochet revolver's effect but it would be stupid to use it on wave 6.
  
• Reduce the invincibility time of the zombie legs/torso to 0.5 second instead of 1.
  
• Make the hp of props proportional to the number of players/zombies.
  
• Increase the attack speed || range || damage of the wendigo. (If players gang up on him with melee he gets knocked around without being able to do anything, even if he hits someone and knocks him down he can't continue to attack if someone comes and hits him with a sledgehammer).
  
• Reduce the speed traits bonus speed if a player's hp goes lower than 20% (I saw a player outrun a nightmare when his aura was almost completely red).
  
• Increase the movement speed of the ghoul/add "fresh dead" class as a wave 1 zombie.
  
• Allow humans to sell their weapons if they get past wave 6 (If they win).
  

[Old Bill]

Suggestions

 

Humans:

 

- Let all weapons unlock at wave 4

 

- Fix custom props killing people

 

- The redeemer spawns near the largest player gathering, instead of fixed locations

 

- Fix carpenter hammer doing nothing when you have zero nails

 

- Make Katana increase your movement speed to 265 but slows you down when you attack

 

 

======================================================================

 

Zombies

 

- Buff all bosses ( +250 health )

 

- Give all bosses %10 damage resistance ( Except Nightmare %50-40 damage resistance ) and Shade is not included.

 

- Give the Legion the ability to puke

 

- Buff all zombies ( +50 health ) at wave one until the zombies population hits %25 " Only at wave one "

 

- Give Fast Zombie the ability to attack while running

 

- Give Fast Zombie the ability to attack underwater and on ladders

 

- Give chem zombie the ability to heal bosses nearby ( +2 health ) when it gets killed

Edited September 3, 2015 by Old Bill

[Trazix]

it is possible to make a system that we can not double nail (2 different person nail same props) it will avoid zlist every 2 minutes

[Northground]

Nerf Wendigo so he cant knock you down exactly after you stand up.

[TheAtrocity]

Dude honestly weapon tiers aren't that big of an issue if you people think about it. Buggy sure but from what I see it's sustainable, profitable, and fairer.

 

If you're gonna complain about potential lost profits you'd best shut up lmao.

 

The ones complaining about point loss, about profiting +300 instead of +500, are the types to quit after being a zombie lolol.

 

Yes I'm talking about oh wait can't put out names

 

Although this won't be a good system if we start nerfing stuff like you did with the glock lol. Bad players.

 

Plz get rid of last human wallspy. It's rather a depressing feature like a handicap for bad players lol

Edited September 3, 2015 by TheAtrocity

[Old Bill]

Nerf Wendigo so he cant knock you down exactly after you stand up.

 

That's the point of Wendigo actually, your teammates have to help you or something.

 

actually it is not impossible to escape from it, just tryhard

[Gewehrwolf]

Your only options with the weapon tiers is one of these, It gets unlocked at wave 3 but it gets nerfed to oblivion, it stays at wave 5 and 50% infliction, or it gets unlocked on wave 3 but a zombie powerful enough to counter is unlocked aswell, You're being incredibly one sided with it as the game has to be fun for BOTH let me say it again BOTH teams. In the original ZS Boomstick was made as a high tier weapon built for crowd control along with the impaler and a boss killer getting it on wave 3 completely breaks the balance

 

Do I need to remind you of Oscar on pub?

 

But I digress due to popular demand all weapons have been moved down a tier so boomstick is tier 4 grim is tier 5

 

The point system has been adjusted aswell here is the multipliers. Wave 4 = 1.2x, Wave 5 = 1.5x, Wave 6 = 1.8x

 

"Original ZS, it was like this"

 

You mean the original ZS that NO ONE plays anymore, all the servers that have the original mod are all dead. HG is the most active out of all of them, so clearly, we were doing something right.

 

"Fun for both teams"

 

Here is a radical idea. give zombies a way to earn points.

 

REWard them for damaging barricades , killing humans, ect. That way it gives them an incentive to attack the human team. They can use the points they earn when they become human again.

 

 

"Oscar on Pub"

 

You know Oscar isn't here anymore right?

 

Getting Impalers and boomsticks on wave 3 breaks the balance

 

tHEN have it unlocked on Wave 3 intermission. Because we REALLY do need those weapons if we're going to be dealing with poison zombies and headcraps.

 

There's my imput, I hope it helps

And if you nerf our favourite weapons, that's going to piss off A LOT of people. Don't do it

Edited September 3, 2015 by Soldier of 4chan

[TheAtrocity]

"Fun for both teams"

Here is a radical idea. give zombies a way to earn points.

REWard them for damaging barricades , killing humans, ect.

 

Yeah lets give people reason to exploit points right yes

 

People leave a lot of shit nailed down so I see an easy point farm here!!!11!!111111111

There was a forum post awhile back detailing a possible solution to this, I remember specifically addressing points to zombie kills but of course nobody read it except people who cared back then

[futo]

I feel like a weapon quota+dynamic price system might help this issue. (I actually edited it into my previous post)

 

 

Weapon quota: Strong weapons have a limited purchase count before it is unlocked by wave/infliction.

 

Dynamic price: Weapons purchased before unlocked will have price penalty.

 

 

An example to illustrate this idea.

 

Wave 1: There can only be 2 Boomsticks purchased from arsenal, and cost 300% points.

 

Wave 2: There can be an additional 2 boomsticks pulled out of an arsenal, and cost 200% points.

 

Wave 3: Formally unlocked, unlimited purchases and cost normal 100% points.

Edited September 3, 2015 by futo

[futo]

Yeah lets give people reason to exploit points right yes People leave a lot of shit nailed down so I see an easy point farm here!

 

And I actually thought of that idea in my bed last night, except it is point awarded to zombies dealing damage to non afk humans.

 

Since the whole tier system and argument also revolve around quality of game play for zombies, I think the point multiplier for human in wave 4,5,6 can be applied to zombies as well, but reversed.

 

(If I remembered the multiplier right.)

So in wave one zb get point multiplier of 1.6x in wave 1, 1.4x in wave 2, and 1.2x in wave 3.

[TheAtrocity]

And I actually thought of that idea in my bed last night, except it is point awarded to zombies dealing damage to non afk humans.

 

Since the whole tier system and argument also revolve around quality of game play for zombies, I think the point multiplier for human in wave 4,5,6 can be applied to zombies as well, but reversed.

 

(If I remembered the multiplier right.)

So in wave one zb get point multiplier of 1.6x in wave 1, 1.4x in wave 2, and 1.2x in wave 3.

 

It's too easy to nail something down intended for use but leave it due to external conflicts. There's an extensive detailed explanation (outdated but modifiable) so as to give zombies points for kills up in the suggestion place somewhere.

 

Using damage as points seems a little unbalanced if not downright exploiting 24/7. Just throw poison, easy. It seems the most viable solution is to award damage based on kills, with a buff for zombies in some form or another in the beginning 2 waves to gain a nice foothold and not spend 6 waves cracking down on a simple layered vcade with 40/50 humans.

 

This way, everyone earns some amount of points and the real added benefit is people start getting better at zs. This also leads us to a better point balancing system in which humans can be nerfed at some situations so as to lessen the amount of profits achieved on the human side.

Edited September 4, 2015 by TheAtrocity

[futo]

Using damage as points seems a little unbalanced if not downright exploiting 24/7. Just throw poison, easy. It seems the most viable solution is to award damage based on kills, with a buff for zombies in some form or another in the beginning 2 waves to gain a nice foothold and not spend 6 waves cracking down on a simple layered vcade with 40/50 humans.

 

While throwing poison might indeed be an easy way to get points as zombie, I hope you didn't forget getting a carpenter's hammer and hit that door cade can easily yield 100+ points as well. I do not consider getting points from human health an exploit, especially when you can easily tune down the point yield per hit points.

 

 

Now to address your point of getting buff; if we were to get zombies to earn points, we will need an economic system for them as well (human earn points to spend, so should zombies). I believe this can combine with your idea of giving buff, by introducing "traits" for zombies to purchase.

 

For instance 15 points for your zombies to move faster, but have reduced health; 10 points for your zombie to be immune to knock downs, but movement become slower etc. Some quick and small ways to alter zombies' abilities can fit some people better with their play style, and to your point, get better with the game.

 

At least with zombies' ability to earn point provide sense of achievement of being zombie, and an economic system for zombie to spend their earned points.

 

I'll think a bit more later and come back.

[TheAtrocity]

While throwing poison might indeed be an easy way to get points as zombie, I hope you didn't forget getting a carpenter's hammer and hit that door cade can easily yield 100+ points as well. I do not consider getting points from human health an exploit, especially when you can easily tune down the point yield per hit points.

 

 

Now to address your point of getting buff; if we were to get zombies to earn points, we will need an economic system for them as well (human earn points to spend, so should zombies). I believe this can combine with your idea of giving buff, by introducing "traits" for zombies to purchase.

 

For instance 15 points for your zombies to move faster, but have reduced health; 10 points for your zombie to be immune to knock downs, but movement become slower etc. Some quick and small ways to alter zombies' abilities can fit some people better with their play style, and to your point, get better with the game.

 

At least with zombies' ability to earn point provide sense of achievement of being zombie, and an economic system for zombie to spend their earned points.

 

I'll think a bit more later and come back.

 

Good Ideas, but

 

to clarify my statement earlier,

 

You're not helping your team if you repeatedly spit poison again and again while with a carpenter's hammer, yes you are getting quite a hefty profit but you're doing something helpful. Repairing is balanced with 30hp per point so as to help small and bigger cades and everything in between.

Edited September 4, 2015 by TheAtrocity

[futo]

You're not helping your team if you repeatedly spit poison again and again

 

 

I disagree. Splitting poison is a process of disruption against shooters and repairer. That is, forcing them to re-position by damaging or blind them(poison headcrab) them.

 

In fact splits are probably one of the strongest edge zombie team has, especially against door cades, which are hopelessly hard to break in without damaging the human inside, forcing them to leave the front line for heal/regain eye sight.

 

 

But you did address a good point as everyone may end up being ghoul/poison zombie/poison headcrab. I wonder if there is a way the game can track how long a prop was repaired and award points for zombie damaging props that's recently being repaired.

 

 

Edit: Actually if that system is in the game we might be able to stop skycade point exploiting for human, and we can actually repair a skycade!

Edited September 4, 2015 by futo

[TheAtrocity]

The repairer almost always hides behind props and hitboxes are not at all great so you can expect yourself to basically never hit repairers.

 

As for defenders, it's a split second shot or dodge before resuming the original position. In fact, people just shoot from differing angles so it isn't at all a problem. I don't see a benefit at all for your team really. Poison only shines on a small number of cades.

[->SK<-]

Look I don't mean to break up the discussion, but could we keep the thread on point please? I want to be able to get to the people who have suggestions

 

Thanks!

[futo]

The repairer almost always hides behind props and hitboxes are not at all great so you can expect yourself to basically never hit repairers. As for defenders, it's a split second shot or dodge before resuming the original position. In fact, people just shoot from differing angles so it isn't at all a problem. I don't see a benefit at all for your team really. Poison only shines on a small number of cades.

 

Maybe indeed people do not require too much time to re-position and continue their defense; however I have seen many good door cades falling these days as they become overwhelmingly more common with the buff trait.

 

I hope you notice the reason they are falling, but I'm gonna say it here.

 

It is because, besides from those sit-there-and-hey-I-got-profit type of guys, the fact shooters are getting hit so frequently by poison they all retreat backward; human medical supplies are very limited(buy med power is not profitable and most do not want to hurt their profit), frequent damage from split eventually render human with low health and unable to defend effectively. Simply be a zombie and watch, most good cade fall with the human having yellow/red health indicator (go to insurance or neighborhood and watch).

 

 

It is quite depressing to see zombies not getting rewarded for their frustrations man.

EDIT:

 

Look I don't mean to break up the discussion, but could we keep the thread on point please? I want to be able to get to the people who have suggestions Thanks!

 

But...but..but we are refining ideas here! lol

 

I really suggest getting a system to reward zombies with something like human having points for fun in later games.

Edited September 4, 2015 by futo

[KitBallard]

You can die as a Spectator if you go through fire and other stuff that hurts you.

 

 

Change the Spectator Mode only for [HG] Members, Moderators and Admins.

The Zombie popularity can decrease alot of that, then you have like 10 Spectators doing nothing.

[->SK<-]

All discussion for this thread to go here pretty please

[TheAtrocity]

Maybe indeed people do not require too much time to re-position and continue their defense; however I have seen many good door cades falling these days as they become overwhelmingly more common with the buff trait.

I hope you notice the reason they are falling, but I'm gonna say it here.

It is because, besides from those sit-there-and-hey-I-got-profit type of guys, the fact shooters are getting hit so frequently by poison they all retreat backward; human medical supplies are very limited(buy med power is not profitable and most do not want to hurt their profit), frequent damage from split eventually render human with low health and unable to defend effectively. Simply be a zombie and watch, most good cade fall with the human having yellow/red health indicator (go to insurance or neighborhood and watch).

It is quite depressing to see zombies not getting rewarded for their frustrations man.

EDIT:

But...but..but we are refining ideas here! lol

I really suggest getting a system to reward zombies with something like human having points for fun in later games.

 

Indeed I have, It falls because of bad humans lol.

 

But yes poison has a decently large factor thanks to the inexperience most humans have. It will be rectified with time and new weapons.

 

A big issue is just point farming unjustifiably. Why create another potential environment for that to happen? All I'm saying is there are better ways to go about giving zombies points. I'm totally for getting a system in place for that, probably a separate point system for zombies or just integrated with existing human ones.

[Red Cloud]

Is it possible to make it so that if you earned let say 140 points before the tier of the impaler is unlocked that you can still buy it? I understand that the tiers are for balancing reason because some players have huge amount of points saved, but if someone able to make enough spendable points ( saved points excluded) for any gun in a round he should be able to buy it.

 

So basically you have no restriction for the points you earned in the map to use, but the points you saved are restricted.