Shitmap Removal

[EngineTrap]

Ok so its been not bad but god awful this past few days, its been shitmap after shitmap after shitmap non stop and it doesnt help that humans dont even try to defend, we always die before wave 3 on most maps.

 

So I decided to post a list of all the shitmaps and why they should be removed because they simply have no salvation

(In other more professional words, the geometry is fucked up beyond repair, the map is badly optimized, the gameplay is awful or all of the previous. This means that I would have to remake the entire map for it to work which is literally the same as creating a new map.)

 

This maps are slowly killing the zs population:

 

 

ALL LILA PANIC MAPS

 

Words cannot describe how awful this map is, its badly optimized, the visuals suck, its small, the zombie spawn sucks (both versions), In the WOW version there arent even props to cade with, The fence thing in the sky is boring and annoying for zombies, We cant cade in the basement because its overrun with zombies in the first 30 seconds since they spawn there.

I can just keep going and going with this map.

 

 

ZS_CHRISTMAS_BOWLING_V2

 

This map is complete hell, its badly optimized, its riddled with props, its super easy for both humans and zombies to instakill eachother because of the ridiculous ammount of heavy props, the map is mostly large hallways, it has this super annoying secret room which is hard to access and I always have to slay people inside there. Its just hell in a bsp file.

 

 

ZS_CHERNOBYL_V2

 

House maps, oh why house maps.

 

Putting the zombie spawn right next to the only cadable spot doesn't equal balanced, there is legit only 1 cading spot which can be found in the house which is right next to the zombie spawn, it literally takes less than a wave to loose, there is no human way of defending this map, unlike christmas bowling this map has way too few props, very bad cading spots with not one but with multiple entrances which accompanied by the absolutely op 6 bosses at wave 2 ends up in a boring, rage inducing experience.

This map has no salvation.

 

ZS_DEADLOCK_V2

 

Small map, Only 2 cading spots, Zombie Spawn is right next to one of the 2, its the same as Chernobyl it has way too few props, way too few cading spots and the new boss update doesnt help at all.

 

 

ZS_INFECTED_FACILITY_REDONE

 

Only 1 cading spot, has few props, zombie spawn is next to the only possible cading spot apart from the usual one, Same as before.

 

ZS_NATALYAS _SHIP_V4

 

Laggy ocean map, very few cading spots since most of the possible cading spots have +3 entrances, People just go into the boats and ride them around until wave 2 when they die and those few who are left get killed by wave 2-3.

Not an enjoyable experience at all.

 

 

ZS_FRENCH_HOUSE

 

Im sorry trazix, but this map is just bad.

 

Small HOUSE Map, Zombie Spawn is right next to the entrance to the house which forces humans to go to the window to get in the house which can be easily trolled by anyone if you put a prop in the window.

This accompanied by the zombie update causes a massive human massacre, etc.

 

The cading spots arent that good and the house has way too few and too many entrances, its not really an enjoyable map and usually causes lots of people leaving.

 

 

ZS_INSURANCE_NEW (Maybe not removal but heavy edit)

 

This suffers from a STELK map syndrome, the map looks good but the gameplay is garbage.

 

There is only 1 cading spot (doorcade only) which can be easily taken down by a tickle (or with the new update 8 tickles) with enough common sense which leads to a quick, boring ass game which doesn't last longer than 3 waves, this is so bad that Dylan and me used to play a game in which he built op ass doorcades and I tried to destroy them to show him how easy this map was for zombies.

 

I say that this map maybe (its just a theory) can be saved if its edited enough, but I doubt it since the map layout is so unbalanced that even the new version couldn't save it.

 

ZS_ABANDONED_MALL_C1

 

My main issue with this map is that just like lila panic wow, its unnecesary, its a bad alternate version of a map that is already in the server, I've seen countless times just like lila that we just played normal abandoned mall and then we play this version which leads to repetitious gameplay.

 

The map looks really bad when compared to its counterpart, its dark for reasons I dont know, its foggy, its laggier than the normal mall and most importantly, its riddled with paintcants, this last factor bothers me because its either a) zombies go in a rampage and propkill everyone or b ) the same but instead of zombies its the humans this time.

 

The map was originally a funny meme of "ITS BANANA MALL BUT WITH HG PLAYER NAMES IN IT!"

but the meme is old, I would edit this map but there's no point in it since we already have abandoned mall.

 

What we could do if you guys really like the idea of a map with HG names in it is that we could make an original mall map made by the entire community of HG ZS with names of classic zs players that have helped make zs better through the years. An Actual community effort, not just some ripoff version of a classic map.

 

Also, do we really want a map with Gandalf's name in it?

 

 

 

-----------------------------------

 

This is just a small list of an even larger list of really bad maps in the server right now,

before you post a comment I gotta say some things

 

First thanks for reading till this point, I really appreciate you are hearing my point here, it took me a lot of time to write this and

 

Secondly, dont misunderstand me, I know its important to have map variety in the server, but we need to have good maps, properly test the maps before adding them, if we did that we wouldn't have maps like zs_scrapyard, where you can clip into the map by just walking around in the roofs.

or just any of the previous maps I listed, you dont need to be a mapper to realize most of the errors I listed, you can go ask practicaly anyone in the server and they will tell you the same.

Quality over quantity, there's a reason why the best artists take a long while to make something.

 

And Third, dont take this as a personal attack if you made any of the maps listed above, Im just pointing out flaws of the maps just as some people have pointed out flaws in my maps and to be honest it helps to improve if you recieve criticism once in a while so lets have an organized civil conversation please.

 

(Saying "GG M8 ZS_MAPSHIT IS BAD LELELEL" or "No dude I grew up playing on zs_neighborhood, you cant say its bad" arent arguments so please think a good argument if you are gonna post a reply here)

Edited December 12, 2016 by EngineTrap

[FoxHound]

its small

 

Small is not necessarily bad

the visuals suck,

 

This CANNOT be an argument until source 2 comes out for gmod lmao

[EngineTrap]

Small is not necessarily bad

 

 

This CANNOT be an argument until source 2 comes out for gmod lmao

 

 

1- You can still make a map look good in gmod just go play gm_scrapmetal or even simpler zs_obj_vertigo or zs_obj_rampage or a lot of maps.

 

and

 

2- The Population is high right now, have 70 players play in a small house map with no cading spots, bad optimization and op zombie bosses and you got yourself a pretty bad laggy experience so for now this is an argument.

Edited December 12, 2016 by EngineTrap

[FoxHound]

1- You can still make a map look good in gmod just go play gm_scrapmetal or even simpler zs_obj_vertigo or zs_obj_rampage or a lot of maps.

and

2- The Population is high right now, have 70 players play in a small house map with no cading spots, bad optimization and op zombie bosses and you got yourself a pretty experience so for now this is an argument.

 

Not a SINGLE map in gmod looks good especially by todays standards, and pac man is still fun, visuals is a stupid argument for removal. Now, I think you're misunderstood because the small map thing IS debatable

[EngineTrap]

Not a SINGLE map in gmod looks good especially by todays standards, and pac man is still fun, visuals is a stupid argument for removal. Now, I think you're misunderstood because the small map thing IS debatable

 

Like I said take a look at this map and tell me if that doesnt look good http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=326331207

What I also mean by this is that the geometry is bad, the map is laggy or just fullbright like some maps (which means there's a leak)

 

and yeah, What I mean by small is that it isnt challenging to play a small map with 1 cading spot, its boring, repetitive and very laggy because lets be honest 100% of this small maps are not well optimized at all, combine all that with gmod being its laggy self with 80 players, just imagine how bad it is.

[FoxHound]

Like I said take a look at this map and tell me if that doesnt look good http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=326331207

What I also mean by this is that the geometry is bad, the map is laggy or just fullbright like some maps (which means there's a leak)

and yeah, What I mean by small is that it isnt challenging to play a small map with 1 cading spot, its boring, repetitive and very laggy because lets be honest 100% of this small maps are not well optimized at all, combine all that with gmod being its laggy self with 80 players, just imagine how bad it is.

 

looks like a generic gmod map to me, maybe some shader mods (if u want that for zs) and optimization and gamebreaking map glitches arent the same thing as visuals

[EngineTrap]

looks like a generic gmod map to me, maybe some shader mods (if u want that for zs) and optimization and gamebreaking map glitches arent the same thing as visuals

 

Fullbright errors are related to visuals and so is bad geometry since geometry is basically the map itself so Im not going off track there.

[ATB]

This maps are slowly killing the zs population:

 

Wut? As far i've im aware population has been increasing. I don't know what you're smoking. And another question is why are you slaying

 

people in a secret room that doesn't involve delaying in a non-objective map? If they've found the spot then they found the spot. If zombies

 

can't find the secret then that's on them. Ruins the whole purpose of a "secret." I'm not sure if i can really take you seriously because you

 

seem to call every map a "shitmap" and you seemingly hate to play zombie. As i've noticed you never usually play as zombie and just sit

 

there in spectator. But However some of these maps will be under consideration.

[Kevinyock]

I'll look into the possible changes for zs_lila_panic_v173 if you have a suggestion.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Great Leader Kevin

[EngineTrap]

Wut? As far i've im aware population has been increasing. I don't know what you're smoking. And another question is why are you slaying

 

people in a secret room that doesn't involve delaying in a non-objective map? If they've found the spot then they found the spot. If zombies

 

can't find the secret then that's on them. Ruins the whole purpose of a "secret." I'm not sure if i can really take you seriously because you

 

seem to call every map a "shitmap" and you seemingly hate to play zombie. As i've noticed you never usually play as zombie and just sit

 

there in spectator. But However some of these maps will be under consideration.

 

Its possible to lock yourself into the room thus making zombies reaching you impossible, also zombie survival is not a game of hide and seek, if you're the last human its game over, zombies shouldn't have to do an entire odyssey to find a single human in an extremely hidden secret spot that you can only find by looking into the vmf file.

 

Also about the zombie thing, I do go zombie, just not 24/7. Im only pointing out maps that actually kill the population, I've seen population go from 70 to 40 just from playing zs_chernobyl, Im not putting on maps that I dislike like snowy castle because snowy castle is a fine map, there isnt really muching to it. Snowy Castle isnt a shitmap.

 

And no, I dont call every map a shitmap, Most of the maps in the server are some of my favorites like zs_lockup, ancient sands, vector, rampage, stadium

(even tho sometimes its boring), ravine, bunker vc, etc.

 

 

The rest is fine to me, even maps like neighborhood which I completely despise are fine for me, its just not a good map but it isnt a shitmap.

 

To me a shitmap is a broken map, lazily made in hammer, a map with terrible optimization and that causes trouble and general dislike in the community.

Im serious go ask anyone if they enjoy zs_chernobyl or infected facility, I bet 7/10 people will tell you its awful.

 

Like I said, unlike Firewall's post about removing maps I did took my time to analyze this maps and post why I want them removed, we shouldnt have maps with 1 cading spot and only 1, zs is a game about variety, having multiple places to go and build a defense, not just make a run for it before the zombies that spawn besides the only cadable spot overrun the house.

[EngineTrap]

I'll look into the possible changes for zs_lila_panic_v173 if you have a suggestion.

 

I already tried modifying lila panic some weeks ago, its very bad, I tried moving the zombie spawn but it just ends up equally bad whever you put it, I dont know, if you do know a way to make it better I would appreciate it, meanwhile Im gonna try to look forward to remaking the entire map.

[Fir3w411]

Your feedback is nearly identical to mine except you repeat things and complain about things like visuals (which is funny because ancient sands is one of the most eye cancerous maps on the vote right now) and obscure stuff like paint cans.

 

Also, you haven't suggested any new maps.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Fir3w411

[EngineTrap]

Your feedback is nearly identical to mine except you repeat things and complain about things like visuals (which is funny because ancient sands is one of the most eye cancerous maps on the vote right now) and obscure stuff like paint cans.

 

Also, you haven't suggested any new maps.

 

I went into detail into maps with only 1 cading spot, bad optimization and like I said

Fullbright errors are related to visuals and so is bad geometry since geometry is basically the map itself so Im not going off track there.

 

The only issue with ancient Sands is the eye cancer HDR, but apart from that you wouldnt dare to tell me the map looks bad or is badly optimized would you?

 

 

I dont need to suggest new maps since I make new maps, if you went through the same effort I do to bring new content into the server I wouldn't complain about your complains or should I begin posting and quoting your incredible suggestions?

Edited December 12, 2016 by EngineTrap

[Fir3w411]

Because you make maps doesn't excuse your hypocrisy.

 

In my other thread you said I didn't suggest any maps, which I didn't. But then you go and do the same in your own thread.

 

And say your map(s) do get in. How many will stay in the rotation? How many will even make it in? This is why you yourself should also suggest maps.

 

It's like talking into the wind.

[EngineTrap]

Because you make maps doesn't excuse your hypocrisy.

 

In my other thread you said I didn't suggest any maps, which I didn't. But then you go and do the same in your own thread.

 

And say your map(s) do get in. How many will stay in the rotation? How many will even make it in? This is why you yourself should also suggest maps.

 

It's like talking into the wind.

 

Like I said, I appreciate criticism, If you find an error in my maps, go ahead poke me in ts or just talk to me in game and show it to me and I'll gladly fix it, It takes weeks if not months to make a map so its a complete dickmove to not appreciate the effort I do to bring new maps.

Secondly I do suggest maps, a lot, that I dont suggest maps to YOU its another thing, but Im always sharing maps with my friends and people I test with including ATB, All the Maps I fix or remake its because I either suggest them or they were suggested by other people that I should fix them.

 

Third.

Lets compare your analysis of a map shall we?

 

Last Stand Mall is probably the map I dread the most. It is seriously the most boring map I can think of - Lost Relics or Supermarket. Each very boring and not fun for anyone.

 

What even is that explanation? Why is it boring? I dont know, since you didn't even mind writing a sentence longer than "its bowring i dun like it ples remove", Like it or not, you cant go and say Last Stand mall has 2 cading spots because its a complete irrelevant argument because it has shitloads of cading spots, that humans just go and pick 2 cading spots out of possibly 100 is something different and something related to the population of zs, not the map itself.

This is the kind of criticism that I just flat out ignore because its an opinion, its not an argument.

 

I hate snowy castle because its boring for me, and? Should it be removed because of this? No, because the map is somewhat balanced, people enjoy it and its optimized, yes it may be boring from time to time but what? There's nothing wrong with the map worth removing.

[Fir3w411]

Okay. First of all I wasn't trying to insult you or our map making or something; and If you read closely you can see that.

 

The problem you do not see is that something like what you just mentioned (map suggestions) is something I could not have known. In your post you propose to remove all these maps but with no alternatives, something you criticized me with on my thread.

 

And then comes this:

 

ZS_ABANDONED_MALL_C1

 

My main issue with this map is that just like lila panic wow, its unnecesary, its a bad alternate version of a map that is already in the server, I've seen countless times just like lila that we just played normal abandoned mall and then we play this version which leads to repetitious gameplay.

 

The map looks really bad when compared to its counterpart, its dark for reasons I dont know, its foggy, its laggier than the normal mall and most importantly, its riddled with paintcants, this last factor bothers me because its either a) zombies go in a rampage and propkill everyone or b ) the same but instead of zombies its the humans this time.

 

How can you dislike C1 when literally almost every game people cade somewhere NOT security? Seriously the previous version should be the one removed.

 

Also to remove Panic would essentially solve this, wouldn't it?

 

Paint cans are definitely a contributing factor to this map's downfall..........

[EngineTrap]

Okay. First of all I wasn't trying to insult you or our map making or something; and If you read closely you can see that.

 

The problem you do not see is that something like what you just mentioned (map suggestions) is something I could not have known. In your post you propose to remove all these maps but with no alternatives, something you criticized me with on my thread.

 

And then comes this:

 

 

 

How can you dislike C1 when literally almost every game people cade somewhere NOT security? Seriously the previous version should be the one removed.

 

Also to remove Panic would essentially solve this, wouldn't it?

 

Paint cans are definitely a contributing factor to this map's downfall..........

 

 

You didnt read it properly, What I mean its that we shouldnt have multiple versions of a map in the rotation, specially if the alternate version is bad, and this is the case with c1 since lets be honest, its a pretty bad version, once again cading one spot over and over again when there's multiple good cading spots isnt an argument, I know its boring and all but a map shouldnt be removed because of that.

[Andrew Wilson]

I can also say c1 needs to be removed. It is difficult to use rifles and find a cade when it is dark and foggy. We already have an abandoned mall map that is practically identical, so it is useless to have both maps in there. If we keep c1 and remove the original, we risk turning abandoned mall into a map that everyone will want removed, which I would not want happening.

[Fir3w411]

Mall C1 has people cading more places than the previous version.

 

Tell me where people usually cade other than security on B?

[EngineTrap]

Mall C1 has people cading more places than the previous version.

 

Tell me where people usually cade other than security on B?

 

Its the humans choice if they wanna cade a single spot over and over again, the map has a shitload of good spots for them to cade, unlike zs_chernobyl where there is only one cading spot that will get you past wave 2.

[Fir3w411]

So the map where people already play in a variety of places should get removed because "humans should" cade in other places in the map where no one cades?

 

Nice mental gymnastics.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Fir3w411

[Guest]

Its the humans choice if they wanna cade a single spot over and over again, the map has a shitload of good spots for them to cade, unlike zs_chernobyl where there is only one cading spot that will get you past wave 2.

 

they will never cade in any spot besides security in v6b because its a hallway with a doorcade, its 10x better than any other viable cading spot on the map. C1 has many options that are pretty equal in quality.

[EngineTrap]

So the map where people already play in a variety of places should get removed because "humans should" cade in other places in the map where no one cades?

 

Nice mental gymnastics.

 

I never mentioned that all at.

 

I said the map should be removed because its a clone of the original abandoned mall, it has bad optimization, the map looks bad, its super dark, has lots of paintcans for no reason, the spawns are placed in a lot of spots which dont make sense, the textures are bad.

 

I can just keep going and going.

[Fir3w411]

But that can be worked on, can't it?

 

I think having a map with more cading spots is better than otherwise, regardless of how many paintcans it has.

[EngineTrap]

But that can be worked on, can't it?

 

I think having a map with more cading spots is better than otherwise, regardless of how many paintcans it has.

 

That goes back to my original point, yes it can be fixed, but why fix a copy of a map when we can make an original map with HG names in it? It would take the same effort, In fact, Im pretty sure it would take more effort to properly optimize a map like abandoned mall than to make a new mall map.