Inconsistency in a rule

[Helix]

On 4/9/2021 at 2:07 AM, TopBlokeGman said:

People get kicked and banned for racism, notably saying, 'the nword'. HG ZS has used the suicide bomb with a muslim chant for a very long time, and I realized that's actually pretty racist. Is this a double-standard in the community, an oversight, or is HG selectively racist?

One solution could be changing the sound to the old gold meme, "beep beep beep WTF BOOM".

Perhaps don't be so butthurt? I think those that have racist thoughts come to mind first are the problem. I think it makes fun of a terrorist organization rather than an entire race or religion.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Helix

[newasky]

Lol I'll throw my 2 penny's at this situation. People saying the n word as calling someone the hard r shouldn't be allowed and calling someone or referring to them just with a regular A, should and can be allowed in my opinion because people deem it as such huge racist word but I don't care, its the way you use it, but as in a sense there is moderation, and hg is a business not a government as saying "free-speech" or something around the lines, and hg can set any rules or anything they want, as in being selective, there's nothing really selective other than a few set of people within the community that impose/implicate and moderate such rules, It just the matter of the fact that people get or find a way to get offended by the slightest things said or done. (Not referring to homophobic topic that was brought up nor am I going to touch it) By the looks of it, this entire post is kinda stupid, because I'd just say to you to grow a pair and leave it alone, but sadly this isn't the situation because hg is a business referring to Eddie post, I can fully understand and agree on his post in some ways. There's a lot of personality's in this community so the different beliefs and values are different from each others and can be considered offensive to one or another, such as this "LALALA" sound effect. As in a way its racist, you can say but it's not really about that, its more comical and a funny way of thinking of the suicide bombs, more stereotypical than anything. You ask yourself this question, when you think of a suicide bomb, what comes to mind? A middle eastern man wearing one, or just the bomb itself? Doesn't it ever cross your mind that its stereotypically proven that you think of a Arabic or middle eastern dude of some sort to begin with. Just how you think of a school shooter, you think of a white kid or man because its there ethnicity that make up or commit those crimes the most, but people wouldn't deem it racist per-se, and even its not committed the most by that race, its just a trend or media attention it gets to such ones race or type. However like family guy for instance or these cartoons its just to poke fun at different racists or stereotypes not to be intentionally or outlandishly racist. Have a bit of humor in things especially online or games, not to think people or community's are selectively fucking racist, and if those people are, it will be addressed or dealt with. As well that sound effect has been around for a long time and its just the matter of essence that you guys are now realizing stupid shit like this. I think it should just be left alone.

If you're offended by my post and think I'm racist- I could care less, but if you want to agree to disagree please go about it in a family friendly manner  

[Lemonade!]

1 hour ago, Helix said:

Perhaps don't be so butthurt? I think those that have racist thoughts come to mind first are the problem. I think it makes fun of a terrorist organization rather than an entire race or religion.

I dont want to come off as condescending but this his how you and some other people here show how you guys are uneducated. the term allaha ackbar or whatever isnt used by just terrorists. its used by muslims world-wide. it literally means god is great and muslims around the world say the term when they are in stressful situations or in any situation to show emotion. so its basically a common vernacular

[Helix]

1 minute ago, Lemonade! said:

I dont want to come off as condescending but this his how you and some other people here show how you guys are uneducated. the term allaha ackbar or whatever isnt used by just terrorists. its used by muslims world-wide. it literally means god is great and muslims around the world say the term when they are in stressful situations or in any situation to show emotion. so its basically a common vernacular

First off that's not how you want to start a sentence if you don't want to sound "condescending".  Second, how are we "uneducated' by finding a phrase typically used by terrorist organizations as not racist just because they so happen to be of a certain race or religion? If anything we are more open minded and accepting of muslim cultures by not associating them with said organizations. I find it more unacceptable to relate this to them because it strengthens the sterotypes against them.

[Seymour Butz]

7 minutes ago, Helix said:

First off that's not how you want to start a sentence if you don't want to sound "condescending".  Second, how are we "uneducated' by finding a phrase typically used by terrorist organizations as not racist just because they so happen to be of a certain race or religion? If anything we are more open minded and accepting of muslim cultures by not associating them with said organizations. I find it more unacceptable to relate this to them because it strengthens the sterotypes against them.

My guy. There are Muslim people telling you something is islamophobic.. and you’re essentially telling them they’re actually the islamophobes because you don’t want an old sound clip removed.

[Helix]

1 minute ago, Seymour Butz said:

My guy. There are Muslim people telling you something is islamophobic.. and you’re essentially telling them they’re actually the islamophobes because you don’t want an old sound clip removed.

So you're you're saying that these few speak for their entire race or religion? Think back to when native american icons were removed. Most native americans had no problem with them. Think about aunt Jemima, her family was upset about the removal of her image from her own brand. Even League of Legends changed the names of their "Mafia" skins to "crime city" just because some A-hole was butthurt about it for a reason I cannot even fathom. If anything this is racial and cultural suppression and this topic should be hidden because it is causing unneeded social drama among the ranks about something extremely vague and ridiculous by someone whom isn't even a member yet. That being said of course I believe that this is a place for *Everyone* but do we need to change every time someone nitpicks?

[TopBlokeGman]

Before I reply to the various posts, I'd like to thank the moderators for tackling the disrespectful posts and shutting them down.

On 4/10/2021 at 3:40 AM, KingLime said:

isnt assuming that the "LALALALALA" clip is a Muslim extremist racist itself? it doesnt say anywhere that it is a Muslim saying it, and like mentioned above, he isnt saying allahu akbar, just LALALALALA.

It isn't an assumption. Muslims use this as a chant, as someone else has mentioned. A good friend of mine made a differentiation between muslims and terrorists who come from the Middle East. One is a culture, race, and religion, the other are people that just want to label themselves that for the terror in terrorism. They're nothing but psychopaths with access to weapons.

On 4/10/2021 at 4:16 AM, Jimothy said:

I'm pretty sure the source of the sound is from Postal 2, where it is 100% used in an offensive way. https://youtu.be/MgcIT91ZHJw.

That being said, the whole point of that game was to be offensive to everybody and over the top to a point where it was comical. I'm not sure if that sentiment carries over if its just that sound effect that plays when someone blows themself up. The stereotype of middle easterners are terrorist suicide bombers has been around for a long time. It only would be an issue if someone genuinely believed the stereotypes and hated others because of it. I think a lot of people on these servers are able to laugh at the absurdity of it in an ironic sense, or don't even think about it at all.

It's pretty telling that HG, in all the wisdom the community has to provide, is using a clip from a game that is designed to be disrespectful, when the community's first rule is to be respectful.

On 4/10/2021 at 4:38 AM, Lynxx said:

So would you like us to change something that has been apart of not just ZS, but source games for decades? it seems like a tall order, especially considering the fact that you are, so far, the only one to have an issue with it, even though all you need to go is Escape - Options - SFX audio and mute it. Problem solved, you no longer hear it, and. As for the Akbar AK, Again, been in the game since its conception, and its an issue only NOW coming up because i mentioned it. It has NO racial connotations, nor is it promoting racism. Its literally the nickname for a gun because gurrila groups such as one in the middle east use the AK. Is the "Schmeisser" MP40 racist because it was used by the Nazi's in WWII? I don't think so. It has zero bearing on racism, its ironic, its mean to be a joke. No one in ZS, nor do i think in any HG server actually became or is racist and uses a random GMOD gamemode to back up their ideals. Its just seems to me as an excuse to be offended by something that no one else has ever had an issue with. Ever. If you do have an issue with it, as stated above, you can turn off SFX audio and you don't have to hear it anymore. Problem - Solved.

Acknowledging the problems and changing them for a more inclusive and safe space should be in the interest of everyone involved. HG is better when it's bigger, right? Simply turning off the sound clientside is not an excuse and I'd go as far to say, a cheap-skate way to avoid the issue entirely.

You speak on behalf of the community, yet, look around. People are discussing both sides and some want change. You really have no right to speak for the community.

On 4/10/2021 at 6:39 AM, bobbythed said:

Learn something new everyday, neat.
 

As far as the topic, I agree with Seymour that HG is selective. Homophobic slurs are allowed in CSGO and every time it has been brought up at a leadership level it's been reaffirmed as acceptable so long as it's not not breaking the "respect all players" rules. Personally I don't know why so many people are so attached to that word that they defend its use regardless of its history of oppression, but I digress.

Realistically unless someone speaks up about stuff like this, and gets enough people to agree that those permitting it have to listen, nothing will be done. We use a similar sound clip (maybe the same? IDK I don't play ZS) for our suicide bombs in jailbreak. Never really thought of it as Islamophobic but I could see how someone could interpret it that way. I also don't know if it's an issue that needs resolution because my personal experience with it hasn't been in that context.

I think its worth talking about this stuff because its easy for people who are used to the way things are to gloss over things that may be hurting other people unbeknownst to them. I'm not sure this instance qualifies as the way I think of that clip is more of an absurdist take on extremists, not the whole religion of Islam. I do however think discussing it is helpful so regardless thanks.

It's unfortunate that the first and basic rule to be respectful is being ignored all through the hierarchy of HG. I have a good feeling this post will be the doorway to some uncomfortable conversations throughout the community, and shed some light on a lot of disrespectful habits we're all in.

6 hours ago, StaibraV said:

out of my 6 years of playing this game you are the first person to ever complain about this 

It's never too late to have a discussion about changing bad habits.

1 hour ago, Helix said:

Perhaps don't be so butthurt? I think those that have racist thoughts come to mind first are the problem. I think it makes fun of a terrorist organization rather than an entire race or religion.

I am personally not affected by this issue. I'm expressing my freedom of speech. The chant in question is not about terrorist organizations. As I mentioned earlier in my post, and as some others have mentioned, it's a chant used by several cultures and races and the terrorists use it as a smokescreen so we hate the wrong people.

1 hour ago, newasky said:

Lol I'll throw my 2 penny's at this situation. People saying the n word as calling someone the hard r shouldn't be allowed and calling someone or referring to them just with a regular A, should and can be allowed in my opinion because people deem it as such huge racist word but I don't care, its the way you use it, but as in a sense there is moderation, and hg is a business not a government as saying "free-speech" or something around the lines, and hg can set any rules or anything they want, as in being selective, there's nothing really selective other than a few set of people within the community that impose/implicate and moderate such rules, It just the matter of the fact that people get or find a way to get offended by the slightest things said or done. (Not referring to homophobic topic that was brought up nor am I going to touch it) By the looks of it, this entire post is kinda stupid, because I'd just say to you to grow a pair and leave it alone, but sadly this isn't the situation because hg is a business referring to Eddie post, I can fully understand and agree on his post in some ways. There's a lot of personality's in this community so the different beliefs and values are different from each others and can be considered offensive to one or another, such as this "LALALA" sound effect. As in a way its racist, you can say but it's not really about that, its more comical and a funny way of thinking of the suicide bombs, more stereotypical than anything. You ask yourself this question, when you think of a suicide bomb, what comes to mind? A middle eastern man wearing one, or just the bomb itself? Doesn't it ever cross your mind that its stereotypically proven that you think of a Arabic or middle eastern dude of some sort to begin with. Just how you think of a school shooter, you think of a white kid or man because its there ethnicity that make up or commit those crimes the most, but people wouldn't deem it racist per-se, and even its not committed the most by that race, its just a trend or media attention it gets to such ones race or type. However like family guy for instance or these cartoons its just to poke fun at different racists or stereotypes not to be intentionally or outlandishly racist. Have a bit of humor in things especially online or games, not to think people or community's are selectively fucking racist, and if those people are, it will be addressed or dealt with. As well that sound effect has been around for a long time and its just the matter of essence that you guys are now realizing stupid shit like this. I think it should just be left alone.

If you're offended by my post and think I'm racist- I could care less, but if you want to agree to disagree please go about it in a family friendly manner  

Everything you said is fine, up until you tell me to, "grow a pair and leave it alone" which is a toxic attitude to have. I mentioned just earlier that this isn't affecting me, though I can acknowledge and appreciate the fact other people are affected by this. In fact, one other poster had the courage to say this topic is directly related to them.

When I think of a suicide bomb, cruel death and suffering comes to mind. I don't affiliate it with a race, culture, or individual person.

Using media to mask racism is clever, sure, it's definitely part of the problem. They do a great job pointing figures...it's their job. You as the individual have the moral responsibility to do your own research (Something a lot of people don't do) before making a decision on a topic the media shows.

Making jokes about cultures, races, genders, sexes, whatever, devalues their existence. You, as the joker, may have great respect for whatever the butt of the joke is, though the people laughing may simply think the people you joked about are literal objects.

6 minutes ago, Helix said:

So you're you're saying that these few speak for their entire race or religion? Think back to when native american icons were removed. Most native americans had no problem with them. Think about aunt Jemima, her family was upset about the removal of her image from her own brand. Even League of Legends changed the names of their "Mafia" skins to "crime city" just because some A-hole was butthurt about it for a reason I cannot even fathom. If anything this is racial and cultural suppression and this topic should be hidden because it is causing unneeded social drama among the ranks about something extremely vague and ridiculous by someone whom isn't even a member yet. That being said of course I believe that this is a place for *Everyone* but do we need to change every time someone nitpicks?

I'm not too familiar with your examples as I haven't really studied North American history, I haven't really followed LoL news, either.

To suggest this topic be hidden right after suggesting this topic is suppressive...you're being hypocritical here. We're expressing our freedom of speech.

If there is social drama over this discussion then it's a discussion to be had. As I mentioned, some uncomfortable conversations are needed to make HG a more inclusive and safe space for everyone.

[Benz]

I appreciate all of your opinions and insights that are reasonable/mature on this thread but this thread is now locked and shut down.