California to Legalize Pot

[Prius]

http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxllegalmarijuana,0,122178.story

 

I couldn't put it in the news section, so I put it here.

 

What do you guys think?

 

It hasn't passed yet, and hopefully won't pass.

 

P.S no flaming thx

Edited March 25, 2010 by Prius

[KenjiFukui]

http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxllegalmarijuana,0,122178.story

 

I couldn't put it in the news section, so I put it here.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Watch them rake in QUADRILLIONS in tax money.

 

Going to troll the Feds, HARD

[LaMigra]

hope it doesn't... last thing i want to see is morons smoking weed in front of little kids

[Doobie]

I think it's time for a move across country.

[Optimus Weiner]

"Hopefully it won't pass"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I won't even begin to list the MYRIAD of reasons that Marijuana should be legal, you silly goose.

[n1ckkkkk]

There's no need for weed

[Koth]

you do realize there have been like 50000000000000 attempts at legalizing it right?

[Wingless]

Its (constantly debated) legitimacy in the medical field keeps my interest. Other than that, it can't be any worse than public intox. The legislature and scientific circle-jerking involved in keeping pot illegal makes me wonder why people don't have a more broad view on the subject. Probably because most people are sheep that are incapable of free thought.

 

Personally, I don't use, but I'm all for keeping an open mind.

[Slazenger]

Colored portions are for those of you who are the tl;dr. Pretty passionate about this subject...I think these are the biggest points as to why marijuana should not be legalized. Feel free to counter.

 

1. Marijuana is often used as a stepping-stone drug, leading to heroin, cocaine, or other harder drugs. Studies show that marijuana use often progresses to the use of harder drugs. In other words, people experiment with what is often thought of as a "harmless" drug. Then, after using it for a while, a bigger "high" is sought; thus, users then turn to the harder stuff like heroin, LSD, cocaine, etc. This is particularly a problem since most people will not directly start abusing the harder drugs that are generally understood to be harmful. Marijuana use may simply embolden them to experiment.
   
2. Stoned driving and other dangers would be increased. Marijuana use isn't truly a "victimless crime" when you consider all the crimes that may be committed when the user is under the influence of the drug. Drunk driving is still a major problem in our society despite all the education and stiff penalties. "Driving high" would be even harder to detect. Unless the user has been smoking in the car, there isn't as distinctive of a smell as there is with alcohol. Also, there's always the possibility that the lapse in judgment caused by drug use will lead to harder crimes like rape or robbery.
   
3. Some consider use of the drug as morally wrong. Many religions and moral codes prohibit the use of intoxicating substances. Marijuana is generally considered to fit into this category. States cannot be involved with the distribution of substances considered immoral by relevant lots of the population. A substance considered unhealthy cannot be produced and distributed with the help of the state, because the goal of the state is to protect citizens' health and not to expose them to risk. Also, the easy availability of drugs would create new consumers rather than "rescuing" current ones.
   
   
4. Legalization would increase the chances of the drug falling into the hands of kids. Even unhealthy legal items such as cigarettes and alcohol are prohibited from being sold to kids. This is because kids generally don't exhibit the same reasoning, responsibility, and judgment of an adult. And their bodies aren't as equipped to handle the intake of these substances. The problem is even worse for marijuana use. Developing brains and bodies can be dealt serious blows by the use of marijuana. Any time you make something legal, you increase the accessibility to children. All too often kids and teenagers get their hands on alcohol or cigarettes. We shouldn't let the same thing happen with marijuana. In many cases, drugs are easier to get than alcohol/cigarettes (at least in my school).
   
5. Because of drug-related arrests, people who have committed or are likely to commit more serious crimes can be taken off the streets. People who produce, sell, traffic, or use illegal drugs have already established themselves as people who will break the law. Anyone who commits drug-related felonies isn't likely to be constrained in committing other felonies, such as robbery, rape, murder, etc. If such people are in prison because of drug charges, they aren't able to go out and commit other crimes. Also, it often occurs that there isn't enough evidence to imprison felons for the serious crimes like murder; however, if they can be imprisoned for something, society is much better off. At a minimum, they will be off the streets, unable to wreak more havoc.
   
6. Physical damage would be done to users that abuse the drug. Although some studies have been disputed, marijuana abuse has been tied to brain damage, cancer, lung damage, depression, amotivational syndrome, and even death. The brain damage has been shown to cause memory loss and difficulty in problem solving. It is the governments duty to protect the public from such dangerous drugs. After all, that's why the FDA was created.
   
7. More widespread use would increase the dangers of secondhand smoke-damage to bystanders. The dangers of secondhand cigarette smoke are well-publicized. Common sense tells us that more widespread usage of marijuana increases the likelihood that other people would suffer the damage of inhaling other people's smoke. Public places like bars would expose innocent patrons. In the home siblings, roommates, kids, and spouses would all face increased exposure. Thus, the health damage to society becomes somewhat exponential.
   

 

Also: http://www.justice.gov/dea/ongoing/legalization.html

Edited March 25, 2010 by Slazenger
Color coded!

[Wingless]

1. Marijuana is often used as a stepping-stone drug, leading to heroin, cocaine, or other harder drugs. Studies show that marijuana use often progresses to the use of harder drugs. In other words, people experiment with what is often thought of as a "harmless" drug. Then, after using it for a while, a bigger "high" is sought; thus, users then turn to the harder stuff like heroin, LSD, cocaine, etc. This is particularly a problem since most people will not directly start abusing the harder drugs that are generally understood to be harmful. Marijuana use may simply embolden them to experiment.
   
2. Stoned driving and other dangers would be increased. Marijuana use isn't truly a "victimless crime" when you consider all the crimes that may be committed when the user is under the influence of the drug. Drunk driving is still a major problem in our society despite all the education and stiff penalties. "Driving high" would be even harder to detect. Unless the user has been smoking in the car, there isn't as distinctive of a smell as there is with alcohol. Also, there's always the possibility that the lapse in judgment caused by drug use will lead to harder crimes like rape or robbery.
   
3. Some consider use of the drug as morally wrong. Many religions and moral codes prohibit the use of intoxicating substances. Marijuana is generally considered to fit into this category. States cannot be involved with the distribution of substances considered immoral by relevant lots of the population. A substance considered unhealthy cannot be produced and distributed with the help of the state, because the goal of the state is to protect citizens' health and not to expose them to risk. Also, the easy availability of drugs would create new consumers rather than "rescuing" current ones.
   
   
4. Legalization would increase the chances of the drug falling into the hands of kids. Even unhealthy legal items such as cigarettes and alcohol are prohibited from being sold to kids. This is because kids generally don't exhibit the same reasoning, responsibility, and judgment of an adult. And their bodies aren't as equipped to handle the intake of these substances. The problem is even worse for marijuana use. Developing brains and bodies can be dealt serious blows by the use of marijuana. Any time you make something legal, you increase the accessibility to children. All too often kids and teenagers get their hands on alcohol or cigarettes. We shouldn't let the same thing happen with marijuana. In many cases, drugs are easier to get than alcohol/cigarettes (at least in my school).
   
5. Because of drug-related arrests, people who have committed or are likely to commit more serious crimes can be taken off the streets. People who produce, sell, traffic, or use illegal drugs have already established themselves as people who will break the law. Anyone who commits drug-related felonies isn't likely to be constrained in committing other felonies, such as robbery, rape, murder, etc. If such people are in prison because of drug charges, they aren't able to go out and commit other crimes. Also, it often occurs that there isn't enough evidence to imprison felons for the serious crimes like murder; however, if they can be imprisoned for something, society is much better off. At a minimum, they will be off the streets, unable to wreak more havoc.
   
6. Physical damage would be done to users that abuse the drug. Although some studies have been disputed, marijuana abuse has been tied to brain damage, cancer, lung damage, depression, amotivational syndrome, and even death. The brain damage has been shown to cause memory loss and difficulty in problem solving. It is the governments duty to protect the public from such dangerous drugs. After all, that's why the FDA was created.
   
7. More widespread use would increase the dangers of secondhand smoke-damage to bystanders. The dangers of secondhand cigarette smoke are well-publicized. Common sense tells us that more widespread usage of marijuana increases the likelihood that other people would suffer the damage of inhaling other people's smoke. Public places like bars would expose innocent patrons. In the home siblings, roommates, kids, and spouses would all face increased exposure. Thus, the health damage to society becomes somewhat exponential.
   

 

Also: http://www.justice.gov/dea/ongoing/legalization.html

 

Quoted from the DOJ - Did not read.

 

(On second thought, I'm feeling argumentative, so I'll post a rebuttal)

[JJK]

hope it doesn't... last thing i want to see is morons smoking weed in front of little kids

 

but tobacco is fine?

[Adam]

but tobacco is fine?

 

i'm pretty sure he meant smoking in general

[JJK]

i'm pretty sure he meant smoking in general

 

I can immagine it.

 

 

Obama sends US further in debt with public healthcare:

 

Obama gains tax money and legalizes Marijuana.

 

derp

[ttaM]

Fox 40 is the shit.

 

Thomas Drayton is now a anchor on the Philly Fox station, black guys smoke pot right?

[Wingless]

1 - People that are prone to expermentation will experiment with other drugs regardless. The reason why most people start with marijuana is because it's cheap. This isn't going to change whether it's legal or not.

 

2 - It seems like the wrong drug is being attacked here. "Well alcohol is already bad so making other drugs legal would be bad too" is a poor point. As far as detection goes, smoking pot leaves physical tells on the body and the user is still prone to to failing a SFST. Failing a SFST means you're going to be taken in for further testing (blood draw) and booked if you fail.

 

3 - See the first sentence of #2. If we're worried about everyone's moral code being offended, we'd need a national prohibition and ALL counties in Nevada would have to outlaw prostitution.

 

4 - Better outlaw guns and pornography while we're out it. Oh, also alcohol and tobacco.

 

5 - This might sound circular, but if you have someone that traffics marajuana illegally, he must also be prone to commit other offenses - largely because you have to in order to keep yourself out of jail. So if this same person opens a pot shop (work with me here) which is a legal, taxable business with permits and the whole 9 yards, is this person prone to criminal activity?

 

6 - ALCOHOL, ALCOHOL, ALCOHOL.

 

7 - This one, I'll agree with. There has to be a provision to keep minors and people that can't take care of themselves from being exposed. After all, if you don't want to drink, you just don't drink, but you don't have the same luxury with an airborne substance.

 

Okay, here's what bothers me about the whole thing. Everyone goes on and on about how we shouldn't taint society with drugs like marijuana (specifically MJ in this case, coke is bad, yo!) because it leaves people inebriated and stupid. The big flaw with this line of reasoning is that alcohol is just as bad, if not WORSE in every imaginable way, and yet, nobody has uttered a single word about banning booze. Furthermore, "independent" studies on the subject are scientifically flawed to the point where they're completely invalid, which creates a swamp of data that you'd spend a lifetime sorting through to find the truth.

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch of the imagination, but I think everyone is looking at this ass backwards. Have you ever in your life heard of someone getting high and beating their wife? Neither have I.

[Dr.jiggles]

Legalize pot=fail

 

Exactly what America needs right now is more pot heads *sarcasm*

[Slazenger]

Some serious questions here that sums up my biggest concern with the legalization of marijuana.

 

Would you let your kids smoke it? Would you be fine with your employees who serve under you smoking it? Would you be okay with law enforcement officers and EMTs smoking it?

 

 

 

I cannot think of anyone I know who regularly smokes weed and is able to function as effectively or intelligently as people who are clean. Regular marijuana smokers, for the most part, are a considerably less capable to work or become educated. And this would mean welfare money will be going to pot as well as their alcohol. I've seen a lot of lives ruined by weed, friends and my second cousin. You can go from an academically successful student to a pot smoker who flunks out in a matter of a month or two. There are occasional smokers who smoke "socially" and only do it once a week or whatever. They manage to function alright, but the majority of people that are addicted are unable to function properly in society.

 

Why do you think almost all large, successful businesses and companies do drug screens? Because the smokers are a liability and are not able to perform their job as well as a non-smoker.

 

 

You can refute this as much as you want, but I think this is truly the strongest argument against legalizing marijuana. Look at countries were it is legalized and compare various statistics per capita.

[Lt. Awesome]

i want canada to legelize pot, I'm against doing it if it's illegal, so....

[Wingless]

Some serious questions here that sums up my biggest concern with the legalization of marijuana.

 

Would you let your kids smoke it? Would you be fine with your employees who serve under you smoking it? Would you be okay with law enforcement officers and EMTs smoking it?

 

 

 

I cannot think of anyone I know who regularly smokes weed and is able to function as effectively or intelligently as people who are clean. Regular marijuana smokers, for the most part, are a considerably less capable to work or become educated. And this would mean welfare money will be going to pot as well as their alcohol. I've seen a lot of lives ruined by weed, friends and my second cousin. You can go from an academically successful student to a pot smoker who flunks out in a matter of a month or two. There are occasional smokers who smoke "socially" and only do it once a week or whatever. They manage to function alright, but the majority of people that are addicted are unable to function properly in society.

 

Why do you think almost all large, successful businesses and companies do drug screens? Because the smokers are a liability and are not able to perform their job as well as a non-smoker.

 

 

You can refute this as much as you want, but I think this is truly the strongest argument against legalizing marijuana. Look at countries were it is legalized and compare various statistics per capita.

 

Replace every reference to pot with the word "alcohol". Go.

 

Mind you that I've seen zero evidence that THC is chemically addictive. Anyone that habitually does ANYTHING functions at lower levels. It's not the drug*, it's the person.

 

*Speaking specifically to pot. Felony narcotics will fuck your face.

[ttaM]

I cannot think of anyone I know who regularly smokes weed and is able to function as effectively or intelligently as people who are clean.

 

[LaMigra]

but tobacco is fine?

 

dunno where you got that from... i am against both

[Prius]

What's happening forum?

[Slazenger]

Replace every reference to pot with the word "alcohol". Go.

 

*Speaking specifically to pot. Felony narcotics will fuck your face.

 

 

You argument is incredibly blind and ridiculous, Wingless. I certainly don't condone alcohol nor tobacco. There are a lot of substances that can be abused and cause a lot of damage. Why add another to it?

 

 

 

Mind you that I've seen zero evidence that THC is chemically addictive. Anyone that habitually does ANYTHING functions at lower levels. It's not the drug*, it's the person.

I didn't want to have to say this, but this is totally bullshit and has been proven by numerous scientific and reliable sources. If you regularly use marijuana you will become psychologically dependent on it. There are far more addictive substances, but marijuana is addictive and can mess up lives.

 

 

Here are a few sources. Check out the first three especially.

 

http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/22/9/3326

 

https://www.msu.edu/~hertlerg/thc.html

 

http://www.cesar.umd.edu/cesar/drugs/marijuana.asp

 

http://find.drugrehab.ca/229/what-exactly-is-thc/

 

http://www.addictiontodrugs.org/marijuana_addiction.php

 

http://addiction-help-line.com/marijuana.html

 

http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/

 

http://addictionrecoverybasics.com/how-marijuana-thc-alters-brain-function/

[fRacture]

The ways that it is addictive though are different from Cigs/other drugs. MJ is mentally addictive while others are because of the chemicals in it.

[viruz]

Slaz you cant become addicted to marijuana it's the high and mental appeasement people get high to. Plus California needs the money badly, and i want to invest in medical ganja so i can get some moneh <3