GJam Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) I've had a few people ask me how to be a better spy, and while I'm in no way a true pro spy (I've really only played it for the last 5-6 months of my 2 odd years of TF2 with a few years of TFC before that), there are some things I've learned that I figured I'd pass on to the younger generation. Note that these are just my opinions, and this is kind of a long post, so I'm not expecting everyone to read it in full. Also, it's probably a bad idea to plagiarize this for your 4 page creative writing assignment, since I'm far from an English major, so there's a ton of run-on sentences and typos I'm sure. In general, I think Spy is a thinking man's class. Not much armor, fairly weak primary weapons, you really have to use your backstab and stealth abilities to succeed. Patience is a virtue for the spy often times, so if you want to just run and gun you're probably better off playing pyro/demo/soldier. Some General tips: Know thy enemy. Learn to anticipate how you opponent will move, where he will move there, when he will move there, how fast he will get there, and take advantage of when he is otherwise occupied trying to kill an opponent he can see to uncloak behind him, deal the death blow, and then fade again back into the background. In the same way that you have to lead targets with a rocket, sniper rifle or pipe bomb, you have to learn to lead targets at closer range for the most consistent backstabs. Divide and conquer. A spy vs. 3-4 players is almost always a no-win situation (short of being in an RTD server with toxic or godmode). However, a spy vs. the player who runs on his own separate path to the cap or otherwise separates himself from his teammates is a best bet victim. These folks are often creatures of habit and will continue taking the same path, building in the same place, or hiding in the same spots time after time. Just don't take advantage of this too often, cause even the greenest noob will eventually learn where you are waiting for him as well, and will often race back to the spot you killed him to get his sweet revenge, so always kill, relocate, kill, relocate, lather, rinse, repeat.... Bide your time. Let opponents concentrate on the shiny, explody stuff instead of you. Most players have a very short attention span when it comes to spies. I've often accidently uncloaked right in front of someone, then quickly ran away while recloaking. He will search me out incessantly for a good 10 seconds, then run off contented in the fact that his awesomeness has scared me completely away while looking for the next fight. Even 1337 players will forget to check around them when in the heat of battle, or when pushing the cart almost to the cap. These are generally the best times to strike. Recognize the skills. Learn to single out the best players, even when they change classes. Pyros who guard engie nests, medics who heal while running backwards, demos who sticky the path behind them, soldiers who rocket attack all the normal hiding spots, and so on. They can still be killed, but normally only when as indicated above they are busy killing 2 or 3 of your teammates. Even "spy aware" players will generally move in a pattern while looking for you, often look in a direction for 1-2 seconds, then turn 180 degrees for another 1-2 seconds, then back around again. Move in for the kill just as they start to turn away from your direction. Seek out the high ground. This is probably my best tip. I'd say that 95% of players will look for enemies at eye level, and even when they know a spy is there, will only fire around them at about chest height. High ground is a huge advantage If you can get above your target, on rocks/buildings/ledges, and many of the higher "invisible" surfaces most maps have. For example, you can actually stand on the outer rail of Frontier at the building between the first and second cap, right above the path of the train, and drop down on people who never bother to look up). Try running around in an empty map of your choice and find as many possible places to hid as you can which will allow you to attack from above with a minimum of movement (straight down being optimal). Prepare, prepare, prepare. Make sure that the weapons you plan to use are ready in quick switch, and learn to go back and forth between them instinctively. If I'm going after an engie nest, I'll equip with the YER but have the sapper ready on my Q key, so I can stab and sap before the gun can turn around. When attacking snipers, always go for the stab first, with your gun ready in case you miss and have to retreat (which I also do often), or if they're razorbacked, shoot first, then switch to the knife if necessary, but even if this preparation isn't enough... Live to fight another day. Well, another few seconds from now at least. Stealth can get you into position, but even the best planning can get messed up by your prey moving the wrong direction, the unavoidable bandwidth hiccup, or a stupid scout who comes running up at the wrong time. It's always better to recloak and move to an undetected spot rather than try to fight it out mano a mano with most classes. No need to feel like a coward, even though it sort of is part of being the spy anyway. Backstabbing is the best remedy for running from a previous fight. I've put enemies in order of what I target first, with some explanation as to why, and some tips to dealing with them: Medics: Especially those with full uber/kritz ready to deploy. We've all seen a medic/heavy combo take out sentry nests with a single uber, so I always go after medics first. Even those fresh from spawn, since a heavy vs. a heavy/medic is usually no contest. New medics are generally easy to kill, since they're running around trying to heal everyone and don't check around them as much. Good medics actually need to be approached carefully, as they normally go back to back with whoever they're healing (so together they pretty much cover 360 degrees around them), up until during and right after he's activated his charge, when he's more focused on following the person he's healing, which is the time to strike at him. Engineers: This is probably my most studied opponent class, being as it's the first class I played and is still my third most played class, after pyro and spy. For some reason I've seen that an engy will build a level 3 sentry, dispenser and tele entrance just outside his spawn door, in a fully accessible area, while watching for spies, but will then pick up his sentry, run without looking around, and move it half way across the map. These are the second most valued target to me because they can set up remote bases for their teams, protect them with sentries, restock injured and ammo-challenged players with dispensers, and teleport them from spawn. Oddly, my priority for killing buildings (when cloaked) is usually teleporter, then sentry, then dispenser. When not cloaked , it's sentry, teleporter, dispenser. My thinking on this being an engy by reflex will run to fix their sapped stuff they spent so much time building, usually leaving any other buildings they have unguarded and prime for sapping. Sentries are an obvious first target since they can easily kill you, but teleporters are a close second, since they bring more enemies that will also kill you closer to you. Lastly, you may be asking why I give so little importance to the dispenser. Think about it, you backstab the engie, kill the immediate threat of the sentry, remove the threat of uninvited guests by taking out the tele's, why not enjoy a brief moment of triumph by stocking up on health and ammo before taking out his last little gadget. Even better, damaged opponents generally know where the dispensers are, will run to them in time of need, and don't think twice about an "engie" standing next to his dispenser, so there's that collateral damage chance. Most recently I've figured out how to correctly sap a sentry of any level while not disguised without taking any damage, important to me being a YER spy. It's all about pattern recognition. Sentries only search in about a 90 degree radius, so you can approach from behind with sapper in hand from about 10 feet away, uncloak, and watch which way the gun turns to greet you. Change your approach slightly to run in the direction it isn't turning in, and sap away. Even if the engie is next to the gun (and normally also behind it and facing it), you can still sap this way. The engie, being so surprised, will almost always immediately try to fix the gun. Swap to the knife and backstab, since it will take him 2 hits to remove your sapper, and often you won't have to re-sap the gun. Also take advantage of the engie's build process when not disguised. At least with my current setup, I can look at an engie's gun and see it's upgrade status. A full upgrade of the gun from level 1 to level 2 (or 2 to 3) will take 8 wrench hits (adds 25 upgrade points to total 200 for each level upgrade). Let the engy get up to hit number 7 (Upgrade status of 175), then attack him from behind. You're uncloak time will generally cover you for that last upgrade hit, and it will take about 2-3 second for the gun to finish leveling up, more than enough time to stab the engie, then switch to your sapper to take out the gun. Worst case, if you mess it up you can often stay next to the engy and take him with you to the afterlife after getting killed by his own gun, giving your teammates the chance to take out the gun without it's engie babysitting it. Snipers: The only class that can pick off your team fresh from spawn from their spawn (well, almost, and not counting the odd demo running to your spawn, setting stickies, then running back to his spawn). Problem with them is that most become so engrossed in scoping in to get a kill that they don't bother checking around them. They often also have a herd mentality, meaning they will gather together 2-4 in the same spot and all snipe while scoped in, and are apparently bad at reporting "spy as me" until their 3 other herd members are also dead. They "try" to back themselves against a wall, but even the slightest angle can be used to get to their backsides. After being backstabbed 2-3 times they'll almost always switch to the razorback. Still not too terrible, and then you know they can't jarate you, so backstab those without it, take out the pistol, move to point blank range and fire 4-5 rounds into the razorback wearers before they can even un-scope. Just be careful, because jarate is just as bad as fire and will be your undoing if anyone is close enough to see you. Heavies: These lovable poster children for the mentally challenged can wipe out half your team simply by holding down the right mouse button for 10 seconds. To this point, they are fairly easy to kill since their weapons have such a wide spread (normally) that they really have to focus on what they're shooting at, usually leaving their hind quarters exposed. And let's face it, they have the largest back surface area and generally the slowest reaction and weapon wind-up times. Also, it's kinda funny to watch a spy-paranoid heavy running and twirling around like Mikhail Baryshnikov looking for you before he finds a new target and locks in on it like an F-18, only to be stabbed again. Other Spies: Probably the most satisfying thing I can do is backstab a spy who has either just cloaked or disguised (or bonus for both) and is off to do to your teammates what you are about to do to him. Inversely most rage-inducing for me, of course, is the opposing spy who backstabs me as I'm about to backstab his full-uber medic. Most spies IMHO tend to be a bit too impatient, and if you are looking around you, it's easy enough to take them out after their first kill, since they tend to get "tunnel vision" chasing their next victim (yes, I do this as well, so it's one of my many faults), and despite their ability to disguise their appearance, their running speed is always capped at spy speed or below, so a scout running like he has a load in is pants is an easy tell. Pyros: Probably the worst enemies to spies for obvious flame-related reasons, not only because damage you, but give their whole team a nice flaming target to shoot at. I often have to leave more experienced pyros to my teammates to deal with since Valve apparently decided to make the spy's suit out of kerosene soaked tissue paper. However, I don't put them at the bottom of my priority list because they almost always suffer from the before mentioned tendency to spy check in patterns, a few seconds in each direction at a time, and a well timed attack can negate this threat. Also, players in the vicinity of such a pyro will let their "spy-dar" down because they feel protected, so taking out that pyro opens up new opportunities for back-stabby-goodness Soldiers/Demos: I tend to group these two classes together because they are a similar threat. The difference comes in the way they deal damage, with Soldiers being more or less instant damagers while demos are time-delayed (for the most part outside of direct pipe bomb hits). Much like the heavies the less experienced ones run headlong into battle knowing they have a weapon that can deal a lot of damage from almost any distance, and those are easy enough to take out. The more experienced ones will often attack from above (by rocket or sticky jumping), which is much harder to track with your crosshairs , and even if you can, you're usually looking up and exposing yourself to fire from around you. Not to mention they're two of the classes with the most health, so it's either backstab or back to spawn for you with them. Scouts: The only more-annoying class than spy in my opinion. Too damn fast to chase, decent ranged weapons, and apparently the smallest backstab hitbox in the game. And I'm not even going to bring up mad milk. I only go after those stupid enough to stand in one spot for seconds at a time. Otherwise, they're pyro fodder as far as I'm concerned. I'll bring an end to probably one of the longest HG forum posts by saying that I welcome any input/revisions and would encourage some of the better members to add their own tips to this or even post other class primers of this sort for other members (if of course they don't already exist). Edited October 12, 2011 by GJam Fixed my derpish YEW references with the correct YER one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaincracker Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I would say tl;dr but since i suck at tf2 ill look it over. Nice guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDevil6193 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 i will read all this soon but if you kill me one more time as a spy, well i gotta get better lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekbot Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Very nice guide. Good tips. I enjoy playing as spy, but I suck, so this is pretty helpful. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDR Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Thanks for the guide GJam, I'm a okay spy it but I'm better at sapping engie stuff than backstabbing people. I'll keep this guide in mind next time I play spy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mx_Paladin -Asian- Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Nice guide, but I still prefer seeing you be a better class than other than a spy when the servers hit to like 5-8 man teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedalBin Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Wow GJam, read it all btw, bloody nice guide man. Will keep it in mind and tbh I vote for sticky... Just a few questions what is a YEW spy? (Guessing it is a loadout) ...and what is your loadout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 look at all the pussies hiding from the real battle in game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekbot Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 YEW=Your Eternal Reward knife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJam Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) Just a few questions what is a YEW spy? (Guessing it is a loadout) ...and what is your loadout? Yea, YEW Shoulda been YER or Your Eternal Reward, sorry I got a little derp there for a second. My loadout is YER with the Cloak and daggar, and recently the Diamondback since i manage to sap a lot of stuff and the crits come in handy. http://www.tf2items.com/id/GJam (BTW, if anyone wants my crates just find me. I'll never use them so they're like ice cubes for an Eskimo IMO) Mulling over going Saharan tho since SOME PEOPLE I play against turn their headphones up to 35 and can hear me uncloak from across the map Edited October 12, 2011 by GJam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJam Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 i will read all this soon but if you kill me one more time as a spy, well i gotta get better lol Sorry, prob shoulda read this post before last night's session Not that it would have stopped me from trying of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJam Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Nice guide, but I still prefer seeing you be a better class than other than a spy when the servers hit to like 5-8 man teams. Actually when teams are smaller, and assuming my team isn't getting it's ass handed to them, or if 2+ other teammates decide they want to go spy, I prefer to go non-spy and choose either pyro or demo. I also go engie before the round if we have others to help build up and will stay engie if we're defending and there is no other engie. But if we've got a nice 8-8+ going, or the other team does a Heavy rush, then I'm gonna get my spy on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedalBin Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I'll have your crates first off. And I havn't yet used the diamond back, you got a spare I could 1:1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJam Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 I'll have your crates first off. Sure, first to ask claims them, just if you happen to have a spare Familiar Fez or some metal to help me craft the same I'd be grateful, if not, nbd. And I havn't yet used the diamond back, you got a spare I could 1:1? Sorry, only have one and got mine from buying Deus Ex, but diamondbacks are craftable, Reclaimed Metal + Frontier Justice + Dead Ringer I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phate Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 /walloftext Ninja tags, use them. otherwise, good guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher' Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I kill spies... enuff said.. still a nice guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixfire36 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Very nice guide, I could possibly be the worst spy ever. Maybe this will help, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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