LazaHorse Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 -25 Rep to use !fire Let's do the math on this one. I have ~150 rep right now in the server. This means I'm paying 1/6 or ~16% of my rep to cast ONE out of ~15 votes (assuming about 42 people in the server) to fire a lead for ONE round only. This zero-sum situation costs me 25 rep to HOPE TO GOD 14 other people want to use THEIR rep to fire someone for ONLY ONE ROUND. There is not efficacy in the system with this sort of cost-benefit imbalance. There is far greater to lose from trying to !fire someone than the expected benefit (taking the jargon of the rational choice theory) of doing so. In the end, the rationally thinking individual (which granted does not apply to most of the people who play jailbreak) would NEVER fire a lead because the chances of the other 14-16 players doing so are slim to none (prisoner's dilemma). TL;DR - The cost to !fire outweigh its expected benefits by too far. SOLUTIONS Just take it out of the game. Provide a greater result to !fire, i.e. that person cannot lead again for three rounds or is teamlocked for three rounds. Reduce the rep cost (10 seems fair... 5 even seems reasonable). Remove the rep cost but instead implement a rep requirement that the voting players must meet in order to submit a vote (200+?). Bort, BonBon, JJK, CSS Uppers? Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaincracker Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I think anything is better than how it is now. Even the pro lead that i am nerds try to !fire me lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 How about you don't loose points unless lead is actually fired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazaHorse Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 How about you don't loose points unless lead is actually fired? Or perhaps if the lead IS fired, it mitigates some of the lost rep. Pay 10 to fire, get back 5 if the lead is fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimzy Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Or perhaps if the lead IS fired, it mitigates some of the lost rep. Pay 10 to fire, get back 5 if the lead is fired. I really like this one. Skipped the math part in your original one tho laz.. I'm too belgian to understand all those numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorito^ Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Or perhaps if the lead IS fired, it mitigates some of the lost rep. Pay 10 to fire, get back 5 if the lead is fired. I agree with this totally. It is pretty much saying. "If you want to fuck around with !fire, then pay for it; but if you are doing it correctly, enjoy a refund. This is probably the best !fire related post other than the one mentioning the idea of !fire in the first place. inb4 this turns into a +1 thread. EDIT: What if they used !fire to mess around an it still gets passed? They will still get a refund. Maybe if it had something that lowers refund amount if to many !fires occur within a time limit? Edited January 5, 2012 by R3venant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazaHorse Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Too complicated. Honestly, if 15 or so people are willing to risk the rep points to knock you out of lead, then you suck as lead and they deserve all the refund they get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJK Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 idea 1. Remove !fire idea 2. umm shit i forgot :/ ill come back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Remove !fire just do this. i hate all this jailbreak drama. reason 1., i dont think it will work costing rep because... how about the people that DONT rebel? they should be the ones that have the ability to use fire lol cuz they want to have a good lead to listen to. reason 2. people with common sense will know that at least half of the people typing !fire are just typing it to type it. reason 3. the only reason i see for someone to be fired is if they just do games to mass kill Ts. like wtf how bad can you be at leading? usually fire was designated to fire people who hogged, who were boring, or who had a bad mic. nowadays, people do it if they dont like the person. thats my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watermelon Jackson Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Simple solution: Restrict the ability to use !fire to every 3-5 rounds, if a lead is actually fired and the person participated. "Server: Calm down! You can only use !fire once every three rounds!" (If someone is actually fired.) Putting a price tag on choice limits freedom to the more rich or to the more willing. I work hard for my drug points, I don't want to lose them because I don't like an idiot or feel like pulling someone's leg. This is the Internet, not America, I should have freedom no matter how rich I am. People will learn to keep a hold on their retard button...and at the same time allow for some leeway and some jokes :] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Simple solution: Restrict the ability to use !fire to every 3-5 rounds, if a lead is actually fired and the person participated. "Server: Calm down! You can only use !fire once every three rounds!" (If someone is actually fired.) Putting a price tag on choice limits freedom to the more rich or to the more willing. I work hard for my drug points, I don't want to lose them because I don't like an idiot or feel like pulling someone's leg. This is the Internet, not America, I should have freedom no matter how rich I am. People will learn to keep a hold on their retard button...and at the same time allow for some leeway and some jokes :] Jackson for president! <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bort Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 OK well now the cost has been reduced to 3 points, and if the fire succeeds, you get it all back. SOLUTIONS Provide a greater result to !fire, i.e. that person cannot lead again for three rounds or is teamlocked for three rounds. That's how it is right now. That's the penalty for being fired. You can't lead again for X rounds. Currently it's 2. I'll change it to 3. Remove the rep cost but instead implement a rep requirement that the voting players must meet in order to submit a vote (200+?). That's how it originally was and we got complaining that it was being abused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Party in my Pants Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Why not instead of making large significant changes, make small subtle altercations that will generally improve the !fire system. I mean lets face it, everysingle person on the server will never be happy with the !fire system, no matters what changes. So how about implementing little subtle changes such as: - you can only fire after 30secs-1 minute into a round(gives the lead a chance to establish themselves as either credible/shit and lets the players decide fairly) - Your first !fire is completely free. HOWEVER if you continue to use !fire into ongoing consecutive rounds, the cost of rep increases (e.g. Round 1 = Free, Round 2 = 5 Rep, Round 3 = 10 rep etc etc). This discourages players from abusing the command. To counter this, a "cooldown" period can reset this increasing cost, so say if a player refrains from using the command for 3 rounds, then the cost is reset (e.g. Round 1 = Free, Round 2 = 5 rep,==>doesn't Use the command==>, Round 6 = Free etc.) - (Although it is already in place) A lead that is fired is restricted from lead for a few rounds. This should increase if they are constantly fired in a short period of time. Also they should be restricted from using the !fire command to avoid raging and wrongfully firing leads who are doing the job correctly. Hope this can make things easier Party xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Why not instead of making large significant changes, make small subtle altercations that will generally improve the !fire system. I mean lets face it, everysingle person on the server will never be happy with the !fire system, no matters what changes. So how about implementing little subtle changes such as: - you can only fire after 30secs-1 minute into a round(gives the lead a chance to establish themselves as either credible/shit and lets the players decide fairly) - Your first !fire is completely free. HOWEVER if you continue to use !fire into ongoing consecutive rounds, the cost of rep increases (e.g. Round 1 = Free, Round 2 = 5 Rep, Round 3 = 10 rep etc etc). This discourages players from abusing the command. To counter this, a "cooldown" period can reset this increasing cost, so say if a player refrains from using the command for 3 rounds, then the cost is reset (e.g. Round 1 = Free, Round 2 = 5 rep,==>doesn't Use the command==>, Round 6 = Free etc.) - (Although it is already in place) A lead that is fired is restricted from lead for a few rounds. This should increase if they are constantly fired in a short period of time. Also they should be restricted from using the !fire command to avoid raging and wrongfully firing leads who are doing the job correctly. Hope this can make things easier Party xx Bort already fixed it >.< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bort Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Party in my Pants, all the things you said are good ideas and they are all possible to do in the code of the plugin, but they would require a bit of effort and several new global arrays to track those things. Let's see if !fire continues to be abused and/or overpowered/underpowered with the new settings. If it's still bad we can continue to tweak it, including implementing some of your ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Luna Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Simple solution: Restrict the ability to use !fire to every 3-5 rounds, if a lead is actually fired and the person participated. "Server: Calm down! You can only use !fire once every three rounds!" (If someone is actually fired.) Putting a price tag on choice limits freedom to the more rich or to the more willing. I work hard for my drug points, I don't want to lose them because I don't like an idiot or feel like pulling someone's leg. This is the Internet, not America, I should have freedom no matter how rich I am. People will learn to keep a hold on their retard button...and at the same time allow for some leeway and some jokes :] Jackson, You are a genius... I vote Jackson for head of the UN~! Also, I'm glad that !fire is still in effect... It can be useful... at times~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I think that an admin should be the only person to really fire a lead. Only if they abuse there authority and the rules of the server should they be fired, but if they might have a pitchy voice they should still be allowed to lead. Idk i guess the ts need to stop using !fire for stupid things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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