Tier Unlock System

[Guest]

The new tier unlock system that I am proposing will be based on SCORE.

 

The new tier system requirements would be like this

 

Tier 1 is 0 score required. Unlocks as soon as game begins.

 

Tier 2 is 80 score required. Unlocks as soon as wave 1 ends.

 

Tier 3 is 250 score required. Unlocks as soon as wave 2 ends.

 

Tier 4 is 350 score required. Unlocks as soon as wave 3 ends.

 

Tier 5 is 450 score required. Unlocks as soon as wave 4 ends.

 

Tier 6 is 750 score required. Unlocks as soon as wave 5 ends.

 

Question/Answers that may help you before replying.(Q&A)

 

Q: Gee Dylan, why would anyone want this?????

A: Currently, tiers are the easiest thing ever to get, and take NO SKILL to get to tier 5. Anyone can sit AFK in a cade and rack up points/ wait for tier 5 to unlock then play. This gives them an incentive to play.

 

Q: Why is this good for the server?

A: It gives people an incentive to buy weapons in the early game and to shoot or do something useful rather than AFK.

 

Q: But, we have pointsave for a reason!!!!!

A: On normal servers, when you buy a tier 3 gun or whatever you're usually broke so you'll stay on tier 3 the whole game, but since hg has pointsave, after buying a gun you can still buy aegis and even other tier 3 weapons if you want.

 

Q: Won't people just do parties?!?!

A: with this system, after you buy the gun it would become locked(for you, others could still buy it if they met the requirements), you can only give it to someone or sell it.

 

Q: b-but Dylan, how are we ever gonna win games now?!?!!?!

A: Just like in most successful games, the harder something is to get(in this case, Tier 5) the more rewarding. You could have more powerful, game changing guns( obviously not completely broken)

Edited July 7, 2017 by Guest

[FoxHound]

and in obj?

[EngineTrap]

I dont know... The Idea sounds good and Im definitely looking forward for a more challenging experience in the server. Just not right now.

 

In a time where 50% of the humans die in wave 1 in half of the maps I think we should wait a bit until the new generation of players is experienced enough to try a new system of tiers.

Remember that back in the day the Tier System caused a whole apocalypse regarding human wins for more than 2 months and during that time we had a lot of experienced players, Now imagine the same scenario but with 70% more kleiners.

[Guest]

and in obj?

Edited July 6, 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

I dont know... The Idea sounds good and Im definitely looking forward for a more challenging experience in the server. Just not right now.

In a time where 50% of the humans die in wave 1 in half of the maps I think we should wait a bit until the new generation of players is experienced enough to try a new system of tiers.

Remember that back in the day the Tier System caused a whole apocalypse regarding human wins for more than 2 months and during that time we had a lot of experienced players, Now imagine the same scenario but with 70% more kleiners.

The reason we die on wave 1 is because not enough people buy guns or hammers and defend. I've had rounds where I just yell at them to buy a gun on replay and then the problem is magically solved and we win maps, in fact, it happened last week on ZS_lostcoast_house

[EngineTrap]

The reason we die on wave 1 is because not enough people buy guns or hammers and defend. I've had rounds where I just yell at them to buy a gun on replay and then the problem is magically solved and we win maps, in fact, it happened last week on ZS_lostcoast_house

 

Yeah but we shouldnt need to be screaming at them to get their neurons kick in, Like I said give em some time and then go and implement the system, also remember that there is a zombie side that does enjoy once or twice winning, the goal is to make wins in both teams balanced, not just to push one of the two to winning all the maps.

Edited November 14, 2016 by EngineTrap

[Guest]

Yeah but we shouldnt need to be screaming at them to get their neurons kick in, Like I said give em some time and then go and implement the system, also remember that there is a zombie side that does enjoy once or twice winning, the goal is to make wins in both teams balanced, not just to push one of the two to winning all the maps.

 

The whole goal of this is to make it harder for humans to win, because not everyone will have enough skill to get to tier 5 or even 4.

Also, if people see this system put in, they WILL buy guns because they will want to get to those higher up weapons, therefore not making us yell at them.

[Grim Raper]

It's a good idea but i think the general population of ZS wouldn't like it

[TheAtrocity]

1) Harder for humans to win?

>We lose most of the maps anyways. Population is unskilled, as usual. Unless people know the map very well and there is a clear form of communication between a halfway competent cade and the rest of the team, zombies are going to win majority of the time.

 

2) What do you mean Lord Atro?

>No cade, no win. No defenders, no win. Since we can easily see that it takes a cade with considerable HP (doorcades) since HG ZS has far too many people on, most of the better skilled (higher than average skill level relative to HG ZS server) are buying the confirmed current best high-tier weaponry. This clearly means that humans having a chance to win is entirely dependent on early-wave preparation only. The rest will follow suit.

 

3) So what does this tier idea mean then?

>For starters, it almost completely abolishes the entire idea of pointsaving. At 850 (and 550 for Wave 3), which is very very hard to accomplish at wave 4 unless you already have 60+ zombies, your profits should be at the point where buying a tier 5 gun WITHOUT pointsaving is feasible. But of course, by that time, the cade is done and dead. Half health and out of repairs, there's no point in continuing the resistance. This also alienates newer players on the server and gives them no incentive to stay.

 

4) So what about scenarios where we have lower population?

>You can forget about buying higher end weaponry then. At lower population, nobody can cade. You have terrible defenders. Might as well log off and wait until the late afternoon times.

 

5) Writing off the lower population, it seems like a fair system. Gets people to buy/try out lower end guns right?

>Good point. Except that the lower end weaponry are literally useless and downright nigh impossible to profit off of. There's too many unbalanced and underpowered/outdated guns to be effective at all for the users. Forget earning your point quota's for the tiers.

---

 

It seems we are tackling the point system incorrectly. The good hearted intention is there, but this should not be the way to solve this problem. Too many 2-3x point events and mini boss events have given everyone too many points. We need to find a logically sound way to reduce points. It should be hard to profit off a grim, etc | it should be a huge point loss that takes months to earn back if one does a party | increase cader incentives | increase zombie effectiveness early rounds. These are just some possible directions we should think about instead of addressing a fix that works in such a specific circumstance. We all know there are many situations and the solution needs to address as many of these as possible, not from a singular standpoint.

Edited November 14, 2016 by TheAtrocity

[The Gaming Limit]

For someone like me I don't have time to play on the server because of school making this happen is a no go as I would prefer getting into the action whenever I have the time to. Plus for half of the map I'm probably making a Cade somewhere and then I won't have any good weapon to defend myself with.

[futo]

The whole reason to afk for tier 5 is because profit; another way to illustrate this is the fact almost all low tiered guns are piss poor even with ammo trait active.

 

Remember when Alyx came out? It immediately became the favorite gun for all and like 1/3 of the server always bought up and fought rigorously until the nerf?

 

I am not trying to justify weapons should all be over powered, I am just getting to the idea that only high damage per shot weapons are welcomed to the house of profits; which is the same idea that low damage bullet hoses suck big time and are actually not balanced, despite having damage per minute similar to slow firing high dps weapons.

 

I did not do exact math calculations (maybe save those for Lord Atro), but I can think of 2 potential examples where they reside in the same tier, same price range but widely different in terms of profitability: Bullet Storm vs. Reaper; Eraser vs. the older automatic Glock..

 

2 other weapons outright too inferior to consider buying that I can think of on top of my head are Cresent (Crackler on tier 2), the Beretta..

 

With what seems to be a constant point rate of 40 dmg/pt and constant ammo price, bullet hoses are only here to make people download extra content. They are all overshadowed and out-competed by high damage per shot weapons. (make them dynamic perhaps?)

 

 

Enough with the complains and back to the topic:

the reason to not buy up and help defending with low tiered weapons is because a lot of them outright economically punish you for doing it. Why bother right?

And this exact type of thinking give birth to what we can see: "omg nobody shot that zombie and let me die" or "omg nobody defended.

[Fir3w411]

I think a predetermined number of points needed to unlock different tiers is a good idea because

• It is not exclusive to shooting.
   
  You can gain points by contributing somehow.
   
  i.e. healing, repairing the cade, placing the arsenal / resupply in more convenient spots instead of just the main cade, etc.
  

• It is a way to get people to spend points.
   
  As previously mentioned several times, too many people have too many points. They sit on top of these points and do nothing with them. If you give incentive to spend more, humans might all have something useful to do rather than wait for high-tier OP weapons.
   
  A slight increase in the point multiplier can be made to compensate for the loss in points. This is key in my argument because the problem people seem to have is that they will lose points if they use the lower-tier stuff.
  

Edited November 14, 2016 by Fir3w411

[TheAtrocity]

I would not be against this system if we did a trial run and the prerequisite amount of points needed to unlock latter-tier weapons reduced drastically. However, you need to address a few issues below:

 

It's honestly a fair idea as long as everyone has a fair chance of buying these weapons without too much of a hurdle (but not too easy of course) to go through. Otherwise, we should just abolish pointsaving altogether.

 

I do not think this system works well other than in very high population or very low population. In scarce population of under 20, this is again a nice mimic of high population (interesting, yes?), meaning there won't be any seal clubbing boomstick wielders with 1 nightmare boss (if population even reaches barely high enough) or 4 active zombies.

In medium-low populations, this tier idea is completely broken.

[EngineTrap]

I think a predetermined number of points needed to unlock different tiers is a good idea because

• It is not exclusive to shooting.
   
  You can gain points by contributing somehow.
   
  i.e. healing, repairing the cade, placing the arsenal / resupply in more convenient spots instead of just the main cade, etc.
  

• It is a way to get people to spend points.
   
  As previously mentioned several times, too many people have too many points. They sit on top of these points and do nothing with them. If you give incentive to spend more, humans might all have something useful to do rather than wait for high-tier OP weapons.
   
  A slight increase in the point multiplier can be made to compensate for the loss in points. This is key in my argument because the problem people seem to have is that they will lose points if they use the lower-tier stuff.
  

 

Dont even need to have this system to spend points, I've wasted 20k on the past week thanks to people like Darksider or PapaJolly which will always go after the solocaders instead of focusing on the main cade.

[dnascot]

What about seperating saved points from points earned during the game. Weapons would cost less if you used earned points. Profit would be more possible by using earned points. We can also just add a seperate shop for unique weapons/items that can only be bought with earned points, but that would take a bit of balancing... Also, this probably would just hinder new players since currently everyone has so many points now.

Edited November 16, 2016 by dnascot

[TheAtrocity]

What about seperating saved points from points earned during the game. Weapons would cost less if you used earned points. Profit would be more possible by using earned points. We can also just add a seperate shop for unique weapons/items that can only be bought with earned points, but that would take a bit of balancing... Also, this probably would just hinder new players since currently everyone has so many points now.

 

Callin for ya boi @Kigen to do a great taxation

[NewPueblo]

I agree that this should be an added feature, but first the point system needs to be fixed. It seems that for the time being you are only rewarded a fair amount of points for fully killing, or "finishing off" a zombie, whereas it should really be just how much damage you deal.

[Spooky Bunny]

As a medic on the server, I want to see dylan new system in effect. I always have been seeing people afking in cades till a higher tier is out.

I trust in dylan, so please make this happen.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Spooky Bunny

[Adam Cole]

Bumping to hear opinions from devs

 

As for my own, I like the concept but the specifics will have to be worked out.

[Guest]

Also with this, you can nerf zombies back the original, so they dont have 700 health! Sounds fun, right?

and we can tone down the bosses, like bonemesh!

[a human being]

I agrees with dylan teir system it will actually give ppls incentive to play the game and try and get stronger weapons before everyone else instead of afk in the cade until wave 5 to buy their high teir weapons

[Ryze]

I like the idea, I would just say it needs testing to make sure its properly balanced and tweaked if need be. And zombies would probably need some kind of a nerf since less top tier guns would be in play.

 

And what about objective, it stays the same?

[Gewehrwolf]

if this actually goes through, i'm going to actually shit myself

[Guest]

I like the idea, I would just say it needs testing to make sure its properly balanced and tweaked if need be. And zombies would probably need some kind of a nerf since less top tier guns would be in play.

 

And what about objective, it stays the same?

 

well lets look at what objectives are now, i mean its basically spawncamping as is right now without any sort of challenge at the start of maps. I feel you could have the same system here, BUT zombies would need a change. the max zombie would only be POISON ZOMBIE.

[Ryze]

well lets look at what objectives are now, i mean its basically spawncamping as is right now without any sort of challenge at the start of maps. I feel you could have the same system here, BUT zombies would need a change. the max zombie would only be POISON ZOMBIE.

 

Gotta be careful what we limit zombies to on objective maps because some revolve on the more OP ones such as rescape if I remember right and didnt mix it up with rampage.