Where we went wrong with JB

[SupaNipplez]

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Maybe it's just my pessimistic nature - but on the reverse side - why be so quick to assume that it will do anything? Based on history and the fact we've tried many other things before which at the time we thought would definitely revive pop but ended up with barely noticeable effects on population (particuarly non-HG population) - why would anything else we do be any different?

Yes these are not sure-fire solutions, but i think its better than just throwing in the towel and giving up. It is pointless in not at least trying.

No offense to you pongo but bringing pessimism to an optimistic thread discussing ways we can revive JB doesnt help anybody. Might as well just say nothing at all. 

Given Jailbreaks importance to current and older members and its place it has cemented itself in HG we should not give up so easily. 

I would also argue that we haven't tried such a big overhaul in the past. All we did was stick with what we've had for so long and asked people to play and hoped to revive JB.  And yes it never worked. I believe a big overhaul like this is all much  needed change. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by SupaNipplez

[Jeri :)]

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No offense to you pongo but bringing pessimism to an optimistic thread discussing ways we can revive JB doesnt help anybody. Might as well just say nothing at all. 

At the same time I think it’s okay to acknowledge we literally had this same thread what a couple months ago? The only difference between this thread and Suicides is this one people want to shake it up rather than going back to our roots. There’s a lot that goes into revival of a dead server (RIP MG), but while I feel like it’s easy to say to current leadership “this is what I thInk should happen” I think it’s still going to come to the same issue as last time. People are nostalgic about JB but unless everyone is getting on and actually going to help this isn’t going to go anywhere. 

[SupaNipplez]

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People are nostalgic about JB but unless everyone is getting on and actually going to help this isn’t going to go anywhere. 

Yes this is the problem. But players, old and new, have no incentive to play JB. Rep/Gang reset, and new maps provide that.

at the end of the day yes it doesnt matter what we do to JB its up to everyone getting on regularly and playing. 

[epicgamercharchar1312[UK]]

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No offense to you pongo but bringing pessimism to an optimistic thread discussing ways we can revive JB doesnt help anybody. Might as well just say nothing at all. 

In all honesty, I'd say Pongo is being realistic, and only seems pessimistic due to the fact everyone hoping for this to work is, at least in my opinion, highly optimistic.

People are thinking that just because we swap some things up we're going to magically get 30+ people on every night. I personally don't see jailbreak even being online for another few months until we get the TTT population steady again, as populating jailbreak will require the division to get on the server, but if they're doing that then TTT will just suffer the same fate until we can recruit new people or get new people to become regulars.

[Rise Above]

The whole style of JB changed, it used to be about leading fun ass days and rebellers either succeeding or not.  New age leads try to kill the Ts, not have fun.  Also for me I could literally just ruin every single day by rebelling for obvious reasons.

Your repetition argument makes no sense at all, the server was popped for like 4-5 years.

[Comic King]

We have to get Jailbreak back to #1 on gametracker. I'll repeat again, making it the best in the US will attract a lot more English speakers. People prefer American and British Jailbreak servers to their native ones.

[SupaNipplez]

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The whole style of JB changed, it used to be about leading fun ass days and rebellers either succeeding or not.  New age leads try to kill the Ts, not have fun.  Also for me I could literally just ruin every single day by rebelling for obvious reasons.

 Your repetition argument makes no sense at all, the server was popped for like 4-5 years.

Ive played on other JB servers and their leads certainly arent amazing, yet these servers still get full pretty much everyday. 

Yes leads stopped being creative on JB. But what caused that? If not the fact we were doing the same thing everyday and at some point youve done everything there is to do, then what was it?

[Jeri :)]

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Yes leads stopped being creative on JB. But what caused that? If not the fact we were doing the same thing everyday and at some point youve done everything there is to do, then what was it?

For most leads it became all about getting to lr through tarps or first reaction last reaction. The repetitive argument confuses me because there is technically infinite things that can be done in JB obviously to an extent. I’ve seen good leads make even the most garbage days shine.

[SupaNipplez]

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For most leads it became all about getting to lr through tarps or first reaction last reaction. The repetitive argument confuses me because there is technically infinite things that can be done in JB obviously to an extent. I’ve seen good leads make even the most garbage days shine

That still doesnt answer my question. What caused leads to start to all be boring? Youre telling my how they are boring, but not how they got there.

saying there are infinite things to do and then immediately contradicting yourself by saying to an extent. Im saying weve been rocking with the same map for so long that we have gotten to the point where leads find nothing new to do. Its always something’s else somebody has done a billion times before. 

[Jeri :)]

Let me rephrase. There are infinite things to do in JB (that are only limited to your imagination and what the rules allow you to do). 

To the first question I guess I really don’t have an answer. The only thing I could think of is that there is no point leading an engaging new day that you thought up when you can just get LR and still he considered a “good lead”

Obviously if people want JB back things need to be done. I personally have always loved how our JB was unique, but I probably don’t have much of an opinion because I don’t even have steam downloaded on my computer anymore.

My only other question is if we conform to everyone and do bring the server back is it even going to be the HG JB that people have so much nostalgia for?

[SupaNipplez]

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My only other question is if we conform to everyone and do bring the server back is it even going to be the HG JB that people have so much nostalgia for?

Well let me ask; is the noglastia purely centered around having a map that no other server had, or was it because of the people and the community that made HG JB so great? I would say it is the latter of the two. It was just a map, it was the US the community that made our server so unique, that made people keep coming back and joining HG.  

When someone recalls their greatest memories from JB, it isnt memories about the map. Its memories about the people playing on the server. 

Our jailbreak IS not like any other. But its not because of the map, it is because we have a community like no other. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by SupaNipplez

[Jxhn]

100% agree on the map rotation idea (quote system on here is broke lmao)

only issue is rebels are gonna have to memorize a lot of maps

[Seymour Butz]

Hey. 

So, we've seen a couple similar threads regarding the Jailbreak server and everyone has different ideas and changes they want to see get implemented.. but, for now we're focusing on getting a (more) stable pop on our TTT server. This doesn't mean jailbreak is gone for good, but we just want to give our most populated CSGO server a better chance at growing and maintaining its population. We don't have a lot of (active) people in our division who aren't already mods. At least half the population on TTT is usually comprised of HG members anyway. We don't want to split up our numbers just yet. There have been ideas thrown around in staff chat to make jailbreak a seasonal server because that's when jailbreak gets the most populated, but we're still monitoring the activity on TTT. 

 

Back to the topic: We've all seen similar threads to this before. People miss the jailbreak server. People remember the fond memories they had on one of the most popular servers in HG. People want to bring jailbreak back.. But, it's hard to convey how much effort is truly needed to really bring back jailbreak. The things that we need the most for a popular jailbreak is... people! Active players who play often! We need people to be on every day but we don't have that many people in this division to make sure there's a steady population everyday. If there weren't at least 12 people on the server, people would get discouraged and leave. 

There were so many times that mods or I have notified the slack CSGO mods channel and tried to get more people to get on but people are busy and can't get on everyday. A mod schedule was made so that the mods could designate specific times to get online and try to get more people to join but that didn't work out well. I remember mods like JarJar would pick specific times later in the day so that people could get on and help populate the server and some did join.. but the population didn't grow after that. JarJar also made a couple new versions of the JB map and, sadly, that still didn't help. We told our mods and other members to "not rebel as much" so that leads wouldn't get discouraged from leading.. that also didn't pan out. We were lax on rule breakers and made sure to give people many, many chances before kicking or banning them. We loosened up on playing sound clips and allowed music to have the n word again (obviously, inherently racist clips were still banned) and that still didn't help. What we truly need are people. Active people. People who want to lead. We need creative leads that don't do the same day over and over. 

 

TLDR; we need active players. I miss jailbreak as well, but if you don't want to put in the effort to try to populate the server even when it's not fun, please don't start blaming everyone else for not stepping up and doing it for you. (This is a general "you", not a specific person.)

[SupaNipplez]

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Back to the topic: We've all seen similar threads to this before. People miss the jailbreak server. People remember the fond memories they had on one of the most popular servers in HG. People want to bring jailbreak back.. But, it's hard to convey how much effort is truly needed to really bring back jailbreak. The things that we need the most for a popular jailbreak is... people! Active players who play often! We need people to be on every day but we don't have that many people in this division to make sure there's a steady population everyday. If there weren't at least 12 people on the server, people would get discouraged and leave. 

There were so many times that mods or I have notified the slack CSGO mods channel and tried to get more people to get on but people are busy and can't get on everyday. A mod schedule was made so that the mods could designate specific times to get online and try to get more people to join but that didn't work out well. I remember mods like JarJar would pick specific times later in the day so that people could get on and help populate the server and some did join.. but the population didn't grow after that. JarJar also made a couple new versions of the JB map and, sadly, that still didn't help. We told our mods and other members to "not rebel as much" so that leads wouldn't get discouraged from leading.. that also didn't pan out. We were lax on rule breakers and made sure to give people many, many chances before kicking or banning them. We loosened up on playing sound clips and allowed music to have the n word again (obviously, inherently racist clips were still banned) and that still didn't help. What we truly need are people. Active people. People who want to lead. We need creative leads that don't do the same day over and over. 

 

TLDR; we need active players. I miss jailbreak as well, but if you don't want to put in the effort to try to populate the server even when it's not fun, please don't start blaming everyone else for not stepping up and doing it for you. (This is a general "you", not a specific person.)

I really feel that this same argument can be applied to TTT. People join, get bored, and leave. The only population it gets are from HG members, and only when someone suggests people should hop on the server. 

I can literally reword it.

The things that we need the most for a popular TTT server  is... people! Active players who play often! We need people to be on every day but we don't have that many people in this division to make sure there's a steady population everyday. If there weren't at least 12 people on the server, people would get discouraged and leave. There were so many times that mods or I have notified the slack CS:GO mods channel and tried to get more people to get on but people are busy and can't get on everyday. A mod schedule was made so that the mods could designate specific times to get online and try to get more people to join but that didn't work out well. I remember mods like JarJar would pick specific times later in the day so that people could get on and help populate the server and some did join.. but the population didn't grow after that.

There currently is no "most populated" CS GO server, they're all equally dead. If we shut down TTT, brought up JB, and continued what we are doing, we would be getting the same results. Occasionally someone says "hey lets play TTT!", a few members get on for an hour and then get bored and leave, and dont play until someone asks people to. When you limit the choice to only one server OF COURSE people get on. 

 

We need people to get on and play, regardless of whether they're asked to by someone else. This applies to both TTT and Jailbreak. 

So if we can only run one server, why does it have to be TTT? Whats stopping us from just deciding to focus all of our efforts on Jailbreak?

I could give the same argument for JB and against TTT.  

"for now we're focusing on getting a (more) stable pop on our JB server. This doesn't mean TTT is gone for good, but we just want to give our most populated CS GO server (as i said there has not been a most populated server for a while now they've all been dead) a better chance at growing and maintaining its population. We don't have a lot of (active) people in our division who aren't already mods. At least half the population on JB is usually comprised of HG members anyway. We don't want to split up our numbers just yet."

 

IN FACT, only could argue that this complete focus on TTT was one of the contributing factors to the death of Jailbreak. Everyone went over and played TTT, and left JB to die. 

 

 

[Seymour Butz]

You're comparing two completely different servers, though.

It's a ton easier to populate our TTT server. We only need 3 people until TTT gets popped. And everything is chosen automatically. People don't have to reluctantly become lead warden and try to salvage the pop. (It's also a lot easier to KEEP the pop of TTT.)

Until TTT gets a stable 20-person average night, I don't see the CSGO division adding back more servers. 

Edit: added in parenthesis 

[SupaNipplez]

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You're comparing two completely different servers, though.

It's a ton easier to populate our TTT server. We only need 3 people until TTT gets popped. And everything is chosen automatically. People don't have to reluctantly become lead warden and try to salvage the pop.

Until TTT gets a stable 20-person average night, I don't see the CSGO division adding back more servers. 

Ok if you believe JB is an unfair comparison, then what is stopping us from shutting down TTT and focusing all our attention on minigames? Again I ask why have we decided that it must be TTT? We can literally do this for any server, limit the choice to only one and of course people play because theres nowhere else to go. 

[Seymour Butz]

It was decided for us when TTT was the one with the population above 10 and everything else had no population at all.. for days. Keeping TTT up wasn't just decided on a whim. It was, and still is, our best chance to rebuild our population after a large portion of it left.

[-Broken-]

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It was decided for us when TTT was the one with the population above 10 and everything else had no population at all.. for days. Keeping TTT up wasn't just decided on a whim. It was, and still is, our best chance to rebuild our population after a large portion of it left.

Real talk time, CS:GO TTT is kinda bad. The plugin just doesn't work anywhere near as well as the GMOD plugin. It has been about half a year since I've played it though, so maybe it got better? I don't know. Every time I check the server status on the forums, it's down so I haven't tried it again recently.

[Seymour Butz]

I think it “works” fine. We could make some improvements, sure, but we need a dev for that. The server status on the website is broken. The server has been up for a while and it’s doing well, but it can still improve. 

[-Broken-]

I think the general consensus overall is "We need developers" cause all this shit is going to require someone who can code.

[SupaNipplez]

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Real talk time, CS:GO TTT is kinda bad. The plugin just doesn't work anywhere near as well as the GMOD plugin. It has been about half a year since I've played it though, so maybe it got better? I don't know. Every time I check the server status on the forums, it's down so I haven't tried it again recently.

The forums are pretty janky and while the sever is up it shows as offline on the forums server list. While I do agree it isnt as great as GMOD it doesnt suck. 

That being said, the only population TTT gets anymore is from HG members when someone comes on TS and asks if people want to play. Otherwise people just sit in TS and play other games or just talk.

Me personally im not a fan of the game mode, I can play for about an hour but it can get really boring really quick. Obviously thats why you have multiple servers. Not everyone is going to like TTT, and the same can be said for any other game mode.

At one point TTT was the most popular csgo server. Also, at one point so was JB. At one point minigames may have even been the most popular server. Now they all seem to be dead.

My simple proposition is this: We take a poll in the community to see what game mode people like playing the best. Whether that be TTT, JB, or MG.  Whatever wins, is what we focus on, because it is what the majority of the community wants. If we get stable population we open up 2nd highest voted, then the 3rd. I think that is a much better idea than leadership making the decision on what sever they think should be open (even if the poll still results in TTT).

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by SupaNipplez

[Chains]

I also remember JB was shut down because that is when panorama came out and it was heavily unstable. With it more stable JB might be another viable option. So I can see both sides. Though I do have to admit, if someone has such a huge opinion than translate that into helping populate, I have a hard time taking someone seriously when they haven't experienced the server at all recently, or given any actual attempt to help populate. Just my 2c.

[epicgamercharchar1312[UK]]

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Real talk time, CS:GO TTT is kinda bad. The plugin just doesn't work anywhere near as well as the GMOD plugin. It has been about half a year since I've played it though, so maybe it got better? I don't know. Every time I check the server status on the forums, it's down so I haven't tried it again recently.

It's not down its a bug with gameme or something.

Also imo csgo TTT is much better than Gmod, and regardless of whether gmod is better or not, we're not talking about a gmod server so its kind of irrelevant to bring it up lol. Especially saying that TTT is bad on a suggestion thread for CSGO

[-Broken-]

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It's not down its a bug with gameme or something.

Also imo csgo TTT is much better than Gmod, and regardless of whether gmod is better or not, we're not talking about a gmod server so its kind of irrelevant to bring it up lol. Especially saying that TTT is bad on a suggestion thread for CSGO

Except that it is relevant. Seymour said, and I quote:
 

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Keeping TTT up wasn't just decided on a whim. It was, and still is, our best chance to rebuild our population after a large portion of it left.

In my opinion that is the wrong path. Still my opinion, CSGO TTT is an imitation that pales in comparison to the original gmod gamemode. Unless I'm horribly mistaken, someone chime in if I am, a lot of the shortcomings that I've experienced like a weaker UI, less intuitive menu structure, questionable differentiation between specific people, etc etc, is more due to the limitations of SourceMod when compared to Lua. Thus relying on either TTT in it's current form or focusing on fixing TTT first to boost the overall CSGO population in my opinion isn't the right way forward when compared to a revitalized JB. JB was HG's CS bread and butter for years.

But no just ignore the greater context of the conversation and get a jab in.

Edited November 15, 2018 by -Broken-

[its kr0nik bitch]

Anal Rules and no Devs. Simple, you guys have people willing to play on the servers so it seems. Just nobody to work on it. People want to play it but wont learn it. I like JarJar's idea. YouTube and learn. We wanted new maps on TTT.... @Twistyy learned how to map, taught me what I could remember. If I can learn how to fix ladders and add guns to maps anybody can....