60Seconds Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Obama is known to progressives as "The Great Compromiser". Instead of fighting for the progressive policies that his base elected him for, he compromises with the republicans -- who, by the way, demonize and spread lies about him as thanks for the favors. By the way, I believe when you say the republicans were "holding the middle class hostage", you are referring to them refusing to pass a bill that raises the debt ceiling, yes? If so, Obama could have raised the debt ceiling at any time with an executive order. Congress is not needed to pass raise the debt ceiling. The debt ceiling has been raised over 100 times since 1917; 75 times since 1962. Examples: 6 times under Clinton, 7 times under G. W. Bush, 4 times under Obama (the 4th one was the one that caused all this "holding hostage" hoopla in the media around the July 2011 timeframe). http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL31967.pdf If the debt ceiling is not raised, the country defaults on payments to its creditor. It's not good for that to happen for a number of reasons, most of them slightly exaggerated (like oh no! the world markets will crash!), but there's this one little hitch: The 14th amendment says, among other things, "The validity of the public debt of the United States ... shall not be questioned.", which means it's unconstitutional to default. So the very premise of the debt ceiling is itself a moot point. If you think the US is spending too much, that's a different issue. This issue: about whether or not to raise the debt ceiling... was about whether or not to pay our creditor after August 2nd 2011. Of course we have to pay them; we've already borrowed the money! I would be weary of supporting a party (Republicans) who threaten a measure (not to raise the debt ceiling), [which would be unconstitutional and essentially ruin the US Dollar's value if the country defaults], as leverage to get the cuts they want. I would be even more weary of a party (Democrats) that are so stupid as to believe that bluff and forfeit their own sacred cows of Medicare and Social Security. The debt ceiling has to be raised whenever appropriations bills are passed that bring our total debt passed the current limit. Don't let politicians fool you into thinking it has anything to do with the country's big budget, or that an administration that raises it is a spendthrift. Both sides raise it all the time. Btw, another republican hypocrite at it's finest: The republic-lead house initiated all the appropriations bills that authorized spending on various things (wars, stimulus, bail-outs) that actually raise the debt... Then when it comes time to actually paying it, they try to make the president look bad by blocking the debt ceiling, which needed to be raised in order to pay for all the things they authorized. I was actually referring to the Republicans refusal of keeping tax cuts for the middle class if the upper class did not get them as well. But you are right about this too. I have a feeling that Obama will be more progressive in his second term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkMonotone Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 This thread is still here.....? Needs to be locked and thrown to the bottom of the ocean. lol I don't vote, that way i can complain about the guy who won, because i didn't vote for him. =D "I have never been hurt by what I have not said." - Calvin Coolidge But to be honest, I'm not a fan of Obama or Romney and I really don't want either one of them in office. I wanted Ron Paul, mainly because looking at his plan for politics he had a good solid position and was worrying about reasonable things, but he got thrown out of that. Romney scares me a little mainly because he's a member of a cult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazaHorse Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 "I have never been hurt by what I have not said." - Calvin Coolidge But to be honest, I'm not a fan of Obama or Romney and I really don't want either one of them in office. I wanted Ron Paul, mainly because looking at his plan for politics he had a good solid position and was worrying about reasonable things, but he got thrown out of that. Romney scares me a little mainly because he's a member of a cult. I've found the problem here. It's not that you block out specific parts of people's arguments/backgrounds, it's that you take what they say and THROW IT as far as you can and interpret that extreme as the reality. The Mormon church is no more a "cult" than the Amish tradition or the Zionist movement. It's an established religious organization that has been around for a number of years despite it's "questionable" theological background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaincracker Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 this is why we can't have nice things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The_Monkey Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I just want to put this out there before people keep going with the sticker shock of the debt size. The debt is not measured in trillions, it is measured in debt to GDP. That is the measurement to watch. Right now the debt clock says we are at 104% of GDP. We haven't been this high since WWII, and normally happens when we are at war. Stop the wars, and the debt should be reduced. Also note, if you increase GDP (by using stimulus, or other means) you decrease the debt ratio. This was the principle behind the surplus of the Clinton days. There wasn't actually a surplus, it was just that GDP was increasing faster than debt. I am for neither candidate, and am keeping my options open right up until election day. On a side note, I don't think Obama did a bad job with what he was given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awwik Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Billys looking forward to 600 dollar electric bills for HALF of the electric he uses now. top reasons NOT TO VOTE FOR OBAMA, 1) Tax restraint for middle and lower class: Obama pledged during his campaign and throughout his presidency not to raise taxes on families making less than $250,000. But ObamaCare’s individual mandate will hit many under the $250,000 mark. (Obama’s own Justice Department said the mandate was a tax, not a penalty, when it argued its constitutionality.) Not to mention a higher federal cigarette tax and countless other “fees†in the health care law that hit the middle and lower class. 2. Has used the E.P.A and your hard earned tax dollars to try and bankrupt the coal and gas industry. Lets face it folks.. CLEAN COAL IS WORKING.. coal produces over 60% of the nations power.. New coal fired power plants like longview power plant near Morgantown WV is so efficient and clean it barely shows up on the u.s carbon footprint map..+ produces near 3x the power as any older style plant. Has not allowed the keystone pipeline.. creating 1000s of jobs here in the united states. Also making it hard for companies to drill in North Dakota for gas and oil.. that reserve is much greater then the one in texas years ago.. again He'd rather us buy oil and gas from over seas instead of creating jobs here in the states.. PEOPLE DO NOT REALIZE HOW MUCH ENERGY WE USE AND THIS ELECTION IS GIGANTIC AS FAR AS ENERGY IS CONCERNED. YOU THINK GAS PRICES SUCK?? JUST WAIT !! Natural gas is next and without coal where are we going to get the energy? So your electric bill goes to 600 per month because no one can make power. dont say windmills. Because there's 1000s around salt lake city and they cant produce nearly enough to power it.. Now try a whole nation.. wont/cant/will never happen. c) QUESTION.. For those of you here in the states.. what is a bigger national threat? terrorism from abroad or a nation with blackouts? 3) Remember this??? Keep your doctor: President Obama repeatedly pledged that under his health care measure, Americans would be able to keep their doctors. However, with rising costs, many employers will dump their health care plans and force workers into the state health care exchanges (unless you belong to one of the unions getting ObamaCare waivers.) A survey by McKinsey & Company found that more than 30% of companies will discontinue coverage for their workers. Do yourself a favor... want a real opinion on obamacare??? ASK YOUR DOCTOR. It's a joke. You get a major illness? They fix it how the government sees fit.. not by the best recommendation of an actual doctor. Constitutional oath: During his January 2009 inauguration, Barack Obama pledged to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States,†yet he has consistently ignored the 10th Amendment giving powers not enumerated in the Constitution to the states. Exhibit No. 1: ObamaCare Gave welfare back for free.. hell you dont need a job or need to train to get one.. just get a free check. ITS THE AMERICAN WAY.. No worries our hard earned tax dollars of the middle class will carry your dead ass to the mailbox. IF YOU ARE ON WELFARE YOU SHOULD BE STUDYING TO GET OFF OF IT.. AT LEAST TRY AND GET A JOB. put the bong down.. i could go on and on and on how fail obama is.. Mit isnt the best choice. But hes Farrrr better then Obama will ever be.. I like you more and more each day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60Seconds Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) I like you more and more each day. I hope you're kidding. I'm also pretty sure that he edited his post a long time after I replied to it. It all boils down to racism, he thinks that welfare is just money that the government gives to black people that don't do anything. My grandfather came here in 1962 without any money at all, welfare helped him survive. My grandfather currently has a net worth bigger than Mitt Romney's, and my father has a net worth of more than a billion dollars. Welfare helped them achieve that. They didn't sit around doing nothing all day. No one came up to them and said "here, have a billion dollars." One coal plant won't alone pollute that much, but together they all do. Clean Coal is a lie promoted by the coal industry. It was debunked a long time ago. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CLEAN COAL, get it through your head Jax. My dad has a house down by me, in Coral Gables. He used to have huge energy bills. He ended up installing solar panels on his roof. Guess what he pays for his energy now? Nothing. No one died installing those solar panels. The Keystone pipeline had the potential to destroy the environment around it. Thats not worth a million jobs. The future is a mix of renewable energy sources, each suited to their environments. You have a problem with the cigarette tax? Cigarettes are terrible for health. It helps discourage smokers and makes money for the government at the same time. The healthcare tax won't be very high. Nothing that will leave a mark. The money it will take out of the lower class' bank accounts is well worth it as it will allow them to have good healthcare. How is Obama to blame for greedy employers who don't want to pay for their employee's healthcare? Btw Mckinsey and Company will not admit who funded that survey, it was probably funded by opponents of Obamacare, which makes it biased. By the way, my doctor loves Obamacare, and so does the hospital that he works in. They are sick of being stiffed by insurance companies and sick of people who can't pay for their healthcare. Stop reading Fox News. Its for your own good Jax. Btw, I'm sorry, but Mckinsey and Company is full of more shit than a broken toilet. http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_06/what_mckinsey_company_has_to_h030160.php Edited September 1, 2012 by Billy Mays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60Seconds Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 So yep, Jax, you were pretty much wrong on every aspect there, waiting for a mega-bort reply too, sorry for the double post. Here are some reasons to vote for Obama. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bernard-whitman/reason-30-a-true-leader_b_1819825.html?utm_hp_ref=elections-2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plastered Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 Your dads a billionaire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60Seconds Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Your dads a billionaire? Multi-billionaire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlock Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Multi-billionaire.Buy me a house, yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60Seconds Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Buy me a house, yeah? You'll have to ask my dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExGBrian Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 You'll have to ask my dad. We still need to meet up your going to buy me a slurpee and were going to disneyland and your going to be my dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60Seconds Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 We still need to meet up your going to buy me a slurpee and were going to disneyland and your going to be my dad How about I buy you a slurpee, and I rent a Rolls Royce and we go to Beverly Hills to pick up some social climbing whores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suicide Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 How about I buy you a slurpee, and I rent a Rolls Royce and we go to Beverly Hills to pick up some social climbing whores. Fuck Brian, omw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExGBrian Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 How about I buy you a slurpee, and I rent a Rolls Royce and we go to Beverly Hills to pick up some social climbing whores. Sounds like a plan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60Seconds Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Sounds like a plan! Oh and I want to introduce you to pork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaX Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Billy, Must have choked on that silver spoon you eat from. I sense a little hostility. I didnt edit anything after you posted. And again IM NOT RACIST. So please find another angle to attack me from. If you knew my nationality you'd be quiet. Well maybe not.. most rich folks point and accuse people of alot of things all the time.. But honestly it's none of your business. But lets just say im not 100% Caucasian and i speak more then 1 language thanks. So stop with the racism finger pointing. But honestly billy.. go ahead and vote for whom you wish... Funny you talk big about dollars and yet you Dont seem to know much about loss or struggle. My old man served and mom was a nurse at the time.. they split when i was young and i ended up on my own at 17. I dont make 1000000 dollars and i dont give a shit about money to be honest. I get by fine.. What i DO care for is family and friends. I have 2 sons and know all too well what it's like to lose someone..I know struggle. I know what it's like to sell things i own to cover bills and have to go buy the same toy over again lol... This is the web and this conversation went from Government and who we liked to the billy mays wants to be famous and popular because his family is worth Billions thread.. Dude.. I dont care. I can say this.. I'm self made. It's humbling and im grateful for everything anyone has ever done for me. The list is short but i remember everything. My oldest son beat Chronic leukemia @ the age of 6. He's now 9 and He may have to fight it again.. So please inform me about what i may not know about government supplied health care. IN REALITY.. YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA. I had to cancel the server box i donated to HG because im already getting hit with large insurance deductibles and of course.. anything obama has done has been no help.. Im 35 not 19. Iv'e fought for what i believe in..I watched my friends pass I know I.R.L struggle. I ask for nothing. I don't want pitty nor your opinion that's based on google searches. I'm BLUE COLLAR..and love it.. Many here in HG won't have millions and billions in their families to brag about. They like me will bust their ass to get everything they have.. what little they have will be respectfully theirs and no one can take that from them.. LIKE THEIR OPINIONS. and there is such a thing as clean coal.. Go to a new generation power plant and do a tour. My mine feeds one that my company owns. I've taken the tour and have seen 1st hand how its done.. have you?? Or did you google it? 0 ASH CONTENT.. why is our roof 56 inches high?? because we cut no rock for power production.. rock = ash Yes we do have to cut a little.. But it goes to the wash plant so the coal is pure when it goes to the power plant.. where does the rock go after? YOU MIGHT BE DRIVING ON IT.. concrete. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly_ash dont believe? trust me.. I wish i could walk upright @ work.. Do this for 75+hrs a week..for the last 5 years. heres me @ work I have more links if you wish. I'm done with this thread. respectfully we are both entitled to our opinions.. So i will respectfully smile and not say another word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Council Kigen Posted September 1, 2012 Executive Council Share Posted September 1, 2012 Political debates will probably be done better in private than on an open forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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