fen Ra Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 That's exactly my point though. If you had looked at my graphs (number 4 and 5, go ahead and look) you would see that it's perfectly acceptable that someone wants to spend 1500 points and be sure of winning, but it's NOT OK that they have a chance for profit (i.e. making 2000 or more) because then there will be an incentive to spend that much EVERY ROUND. I don't care if you're quitting zs and you buy 150 grenades on pub so nobody can even enter the hallway, but it must be a one time thing. This is up to the mapper (who, poor soul, has no idea his map will be used on a pointsaving server) and in the case of zs_pathogen the map fails miserably at preventing this. So, it is actually up to the guy who makes the map rotation. is the map OP? no. can you build a OP cade in a hallway? yes. Can you build an overpowered barricade in a hallway using two goddamn shelves? Yes, so the map is overpowered AND it is pointless to play it. But anyway, here's another piece of the puzzle. It happened again, against all odds, and here is the demo. https://mega.co.nz/#!9VcjmZoS!NIOEGyeeKLE4qBQz87gnj4-t7i1Qqdd5Iscyocl8iKs Special guest jaxjaxk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 This map doesn't even work for me, I agree remove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxjaxk Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 so its not the map you have a problem with its the point saving system that alows people to buy boomsticks and impailers on round two... make up your mind. if you want to stop point farmers make it so when you buy a turret it only comes with 50 ammo and nurf the DPS a bit. a turret cost 50 points and comes with 200 rounds YET to buy 200 smg ammo you have to spend about 200 points. whats up with that?! not many people spend points like crazy on this server. the most i have ever spend was 1,000 points in one round because i bought a boomstick and a ton of turrets+ammo+wrench. that was bungalows. jolly has like 250,000. halways are hard to balance becaue if you do something like add a new zombie than the zombies become OP all the time, if you get rid of props players just grab more. the solution is simple, if you dont like a map dont vote for it, inform others that it is not a good map. i don't vote for pathogen, not because its OP but i like other maps better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Marche Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Both contribute. A coordinated team can win on any server (ALL modded servers are easier than vanilla) on pathogen. It's no trouble if you just clean off the fat. 30 humans 4 zombies will become maybe 26 8 with a team leader. 26 8 can hold the front entrance and top entrance until wave 3, and maybe wave 4. The hallway itself surely lasts for 2 waves against 8 zombies, so even on the hardest server (nox) the map has a stupid high win rate. But with pointsaving and the old turret (which is op as fuck) all it takes is one guy who cares to try. just to take a guess you are pissed because you die oftin on this map. not many people like being a zombie, don't request a map to be removed because you're upset. Lol this doesn't hold up in any form, it's an ad hominem. Fen chooses to be zombie knowing the bewmstick cr3w â„¢ will instantly kill him. The fun of being a zombie is putting pressure on humans and breaking through, neither which exist on pathogen. Besides even that, how is it not a valid reason? Games are supposed to be FUN. If people are not having fun playing a game, it is not a good game. Edited January 23, 2015 by Matt Marche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Can I edit the map? or can we tell it maker to edit the map? I can make the hallway shorter or just remove it. Edited January 23, 2015 by Old Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fen Ra Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 so its not the map you have a problem with its the point saving system that alows people to buy boomsticks and impailers on round two... make up your mind. I have already told you that I don't care about it, but it requires more attention to keep things balanced both for maps and general settings, which is not happening at all right now. And I think you will agree that this server runs no risk of getting new zombies anytime soon. Giving less ammo with turrets is a good idea in my opinion. Like Matt said, zombie is a much more mission-oriented gameplay, and when you try it you can understand how easy it is to ruin it, even while the other team is still having fun. Can I edit the map? or can we tell it maker to edit the map? I can make the hallway shorter or just remove it. I think shorter as in removing one window's worth of length would make it good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fen Ra Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Here is another. patho2.dem Hard earned points The Rock approves of your work Edited February 17, 2015 by fen Ra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RageAlotDragon Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I personally think that zs_bungalows and zs_closed_factory are bigger issues than zs_pathogen. zs_bungalows is already widely known for it's swag island OPness, but zs_closed_factory is also an issue. Multiple people claim crashes and "invisible prop' errors, and yet the map is still in rotation. https://hellsgamers.com/topic/107403-closed-factory-error-need-fix/page__hl__factory https://hellsgamers.com/topic/108546-create-separate-systems-for-stopping-a-bad-map-and-changing-to-an-off-list-map/page__hl__factory#entry632993 https://hellsgamers.com/topic/106755-zs-closed-factory-01/page__hl__factory It is also pretty OP for humans due to it's "Open Space" layout, and causes lots of Zombie RQs due to their inability to even touch the cade until W4, when Poison HCs become available to push Humans away from the fence so that Zombies can make their way to the cade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fen Ra Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 I personally don't mind closet_fa****ry too much as long as there is someone who is not 12 and can pick pukepus. But I agree that pathogen is not the largest issue, the topic is mostly symbolic because I have no hope that this issue will be fixed nor any other lesser or greater ones. I would change the title to A Friendly Discussion About Map Balance, Which Is a Precise Science by the Way but I can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAtrocity Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 To be entirely honest, Bungalows is only OP for the highest skilled players as long as shit island doesn't have 400 turrets. Even decently skilled players will not survive. From playing on bungalows recently, as long as the spawncampers are killed off (you know, those players who are so good at zs they use skillsticks) using admin powers (inb4 admin abooooos) it's surprising how easily the humans start to completely break down. A smart player can easily get into position on the few players left (as a wraith) and do a nasty 40. Rinse and repeat. But if the 400 turrets on shit island stand, that's another question entirely...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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