idea Skill Trees (starting concept) | ZS Suggestion

[Snowyamur]

Skill Trees

Starter idea/ concept for a replacement to traits. Skill trees are inspired off of Sunrust's ZS server skill trees conjoined with Dying Light's skill trees, but simplified. These would be designed to include traits and allow players to choose the buffs and effects they want in an easier way.

Concept by Snowyamur

Inspiration from Dying Light, The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Borderlands 1 and 2, and Sunrust's ZS Server

 

Synopsis

So a week or two ago, I was talking to Blueberry about ZS, and he said Sunrust's ZS server has better gameplay and mechanics. Given that many players on HG, including myself, have talked s**t about Sunrust's ZS server, I no longer wanted to make such derogatory statements without actually having been on Sunrust's ZS server and trying it out for myself.

So I hopped on, and immediately, a lot of things were functional and clean. The UI, the boss selection menu, the weapons database, the functionality of zombie types, etc. worked out pretty well, and they were more polished and, most importantly, balanced than what HG ZS has. However, I'm not saying this to make Sunrust look good and HG look bad; I'm saying this out of what I've seen with my own eyes. From a few accounts by a few Sunrust players, Sunrust has dozens of developers, designers, animators, modelers, etc.; that's how they're able to pull all this off, whereas HG only has 3 developers, a few volunteer designers, 1 modeler, and a few QA testers. While HG's development team is noticeably smaller, for what they've pulled off in comparison with Sunrust is close to the same, just less polished.

While on Sunrust's ZS server, one thing that stood out to me was their skill system they integrated. It had the feel of that from Skyrim, while also providing a more neatly-organized and flexible way for players to select what traits they wanted to have. Taking that into account, if Sunrust can pull it off, I feel that it's possible to pull off our own version of a skill tree system, albeit it's going to be slower to develop due to development team size.

That said, I feel that if our server had a skill tree system as well, replayability improves, and we attract [possibly] friendlier and more gameplay-inclined people to our server, which would overall improve our ZS community, while further adding better gameplay features to our own ZS server.

Note: as said above, this is a starter idea/ concept for the skill trees. This suggestion will NOT include any specifics for the skills in-terms of mechanics and integer values, such as the skills themselves nor the attributes involved, until I see how people think of this idea and their feedback towards it.

Note 2: this general concept will be applied for only the HUMANS for now; the zombies will follow-suit if this idea/ starting concept receives positive feedback and attention, and development on it becomes a possibility.

Note 3: with regards to what Fume stated below, I stated how I said something somewhere here, but I guess I didn't, so I'll say it here. It will be virtually impossible to include this unless we have a larger development team, but until we do, this idea will remain here because it's a possible thing to consider.

 

Skill Trees

So the skill trees themselves, as stated above, are designed to replace how traits are selected and used on our ZS server. This system will be designed to be more organized, accessible, and flexible for the player, and unlike the current traits system, the skill trees system will require less time to learn and figure out. If players have played games like Skyrim, Dying Light, Wolfenstein: The New Order or The New Colossus, Infamous, Borderlands (all of them), or any other game with a skill tree system, this would be most familiar with them. While not much creativity can be found using a skill trees system for traits, it nonetheless would be a familiar mechanic/ system for players, relieving them of having to spend time learning how our current traits system works.

More importantly, this would be a refreshing introduction to something new for our ZS server.

Akin to how Sunrust operates their skill tree system, players can level up and earn skill points towards unlocking skills of their choice, and certain actions grant them experience points for said actions. The route that I'm going to be taking with skill trees for HG ZS is the Dying Light route, which is having separate skill trees for separate roles. Unlike Sunrust where players gain universal EXP for pretty much anything they do, players that do certain actions will earn EXP that falls under a certain skill tree, and the skill points they learn under that tree can be used to purchase related skills akin to the skill tree of their choice. For the purposes of scope, these skill trees will be simplified.

 

The Instinct Tree

If you've played Dying Light, you would no doubt recognize that I'm trying to take a different route with word choice for the "Survivor" skill tree, renaming it to "Instinct." The Instinct Tree focuses heavily on survivor skills, most of which improve the odds of surviving the apocalypse. These can range from improved durability, to better price-haggling from the Arsenal Crate, to powerful in-game effects.

EXP gain methods:

• surviving waves
  • surviving a wave grants a certain amount of EXP; this value remains constant as EXP earned per wave survived.
  • surviving Wave 6 (or Wave 7 on certain maps), thereby winning as the human team, will grant a lot of EXP.
    • this EXP reward will be almost enough to level up given that it's rare for humans to win during most times of the day.
• completing achievements
  • achievements will now reward EXP alongside point and card deck/ chest rewards.
• spending points[???]
  • players that spend their points will earn Instinct EXP as it pertains to Zombie Survival for Garry's Mod.
    • this gives a reason to not always pointwhore and not buy anything from the Arsenal Crate.

Perks effects:

• increased durability
  • might replace Health cards, which in-turn would mean points spent would have to be compensated
• improved and faster movement
  • might replace Speed cards, which in-turn would mean points spent would have to be compensated
• access to unique weapons and equipment[???]
• powerful and advantageous buffs and effects:
  • damage reduction from certain sources
  • certain immunities from particular effects
  • navigating, pathfinding, and improved senses
  • improved haggling; improved buy and sell values from the Arsenal Crate
  • special perks (improved points gain, innate health regeneration, unique resistances, etc.)
  • improved deployable use:
    • reduced Resupply Box delay
  • improved card effects
  • other

 

The Support Tree

Unlike Dying Light, Zombie Survival gives the user, the player, an ability to construct barricades. Such a skill could fall under what could be considered as "team support;" so can healing. Players that don't fight on the frontlines and choose to support their team in combat would choose to construct barricades and heal, and they will benefit from that in their own way separate from the Instinct Tree.

EXP gain methods:

• repairing stuff:
  • barricades
  • Supply Crates
  • deployables
    • excludes EXP being earned for barricades or deployables under the player's control taking damage.
• healing others:
  • excludes EXP being earned for providing buffs and certain resistances when healing.
• blocking damage:
  • Forcefields blocking any forms of projectile damage
  • use of "Aegis" Barricade Kits from the Arsenal Crate ONLY
• dealing damage with deployables; NOT weapons
• having your Arsenal Crate being used
• having your Resupply Box being used
• other

Perk effects:

• improved healing effects, alongside unique healing skills that can provide a wide range of buffs.
• improved repair effects, alongside unique repair skills that improve overall barricade maintenance.
• special barricading skills that provide unique forms of utility and apply to particular situations.
• improved deployables:
  • increased durability
  • improved damage (if available)

 

The Combat Tree

As with any zombie apocalypse, knowing the art of combat and warfare is essential when trying to hold back the zombie horde. In ZS, this is no exception. Slashing, bashing, shooting, stabbing, and pummeling zombies to death is a norm for the zombie apocalypse, but it's a skill that must be mastered. Unlike the Instinct and Support Trees that emphasize survival by defense and special resistances, the Combat Tree emphasizes survival by improved combat abilities and special damage.

EXP gain methods:

• dealing damage WITH WEAPONS.
  • damage from deployables will give the player Support EXP, not Combat EXP.
• killing zombies.
  • killing zombies by any means rewards Combat EXP no matter what
    • if a zombie is killed by a deployable or assisted death by the human player, both Combat and Support EXP could be rewarded together.
• taking damage.
  • dying will NOT reset the level counter nor EXP gains.
  • any damage to the human player, including fall damage and self-inflicted damage, will give Combat EXP in return.

Perk effects:

• improved ranged and melee capabilities:
  • improved fire rate or attack speed
  • overall improved damage across the board
  • improved ranged or melee weapon attributes
• special fighting traits:
  • improved resistances or buffs granted by using certain weapons
  • universal improvement of a selection of weapons
  • special effects by performing certain combat actions
  • special effects by performing normal actions (reloading, moving, etc.)
• weapon modifications:
  • improved clip size
  • elemental bullets (available elements below):
    • fire (take x damage over t seconds and props take x damage over t seconds)
    • frost (take x more damage from anything and move slower for t seconds)
    • poison (take x damage over t seconds and attack slower for t seconds)
    • corrosive (enemies with blood armor take extra damage and metal props take extra x damage over t seconds)
    • electric (% chance of being stunned in place, but can still attack)
    • tar (gives a debuff that inflicts extra damage on enemies that are set on fire, or have the burn effect)
    • time (% chance of being frozen in time, whereby the player can't do anything, but they can't take damage from anything)
    • omni (very low % chance of applying every single element to an enemy)
• other

 

Conclusion

So, this is how skill trees would work for ZS. Each tree has their own way to gain EXP, and each tree gives the player different specifications.

If you have any feedback, be sure to post them below. I want to see what others think of this before treading further on this idea.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Snowyamur
Added Note 3 to reflect on what Fume said because I initially thought I said it, but I didn't.

[Snowyamur]

Another thing I want to add is that this idea would virtually be impossible to pull off without a larger development team, specifically for programming and game design.

[TheDarkDevilRo3]

Adding Skill Tree = Balance Fucked 

[Snowyamur]

Quote

Adding a skill tree would be a necessity HG would give more reason to play longer, because of gradual growth is usually better than instant.

Also, please if you were to add a skill tree don't involve bonus crates adding any exp or spending points to it; I've always loved skill trees.

@A Imperfect perfection

Well, more reason to play longer, but also to extend the longevity of the Zombie Survival game mode itself. As I said above, I will not be including any more specific details pertaining to what traits I plan to include until I know what people think of this idea.

If I didn't mention this in the writing, zombies will also have a skill tree that's separate from the humans, but I would prefer if someone, possibly a zmain, design that because I tend to play human a lot more than zombie, so I know more for what's beneficial for the human team.

However, that doesn't mean I won't try to design a skill tree for the zombies.

 

Quote

Adding Skill Tree = Balance Fucked 

@TheDarkDevilRo3

I don't like to be an a**hole, but if you can't give a proper reason as to why having a skill tree would ruin balance, don't bother concluding that skill tree = game is ruined automatically. This is just a basic, starting concept; not everything is fledged out yet. As I'm sure you aren't aware, but if you haven't been on Sunrust, they pulled off a skill tree, so why can't we? If you have been on Sunrust, then you know well a skill tree is a possibility for our server.

[Lady Luck]

Where is my zombie skilltree at. K ima try myself.

The Zombie Tree

Considering that giving the humans more buffs and ignoring the zombie side is the spot where i step in and point things out that usually get ignored or downplayed by zombies being to "OP" nearly all the time.

 

EXP gain methods:

• Damaging Humans with any kind of zombie
• Killing Humans as any kind of zombie
• Taking damage from humans

 

Perk effects:

• improved ranged and melee capabilities:
  • improved fire rate or attack speed
  • overall improved damage across the board
  • improved ranged or melee weapon attributes

 

• special fighting traits:
  • improved resistances or buffs granted by using certain zombies
  • special effects by performing certain zombie actions
  • special effects by performing normal actions (moving, attacking cade or humans.)

 

• Zombie Modifications/Mutations
  • Elemental resistances
  • Increased speed when in water
  • Bone armor plates (always start with a small amount of armor)
  • Lazer damage resistances
  • Increased pull when hitting a human
  • Status effects that can apply to cade or humans after getting hit
  • Increased dmg to droped items like guns/loot
  • Longer claws
  • More speed / skinny zombie

Yes i know this sounds like listing the traits in the blood arse, But having humans spawn with buffs and just straight up ignoring the zombie side of things is not a thing i would like to see.

Cause no matter how hard you try, you will spend time as a zombie. (unless you are one of those jackasses that just go afk or leave till next map. It is frustrating that these people complain about humans needing buffs.)

[Snowyamur]

@Lady Luck

Well, as I told A Imperfect perfection, I tend to play as human; that's why I was able to come up with a skill tree for humans, and that even though I don't usually zmain, I would try to come up with a skill tree for zombies.

Seems like you did that for me already, Lady Luck, but you know what's best, and not overpowered, for the zombie team, so I leave that to you.

[welchnome]

An idea for a zombie skill that would be nice is something I call, Total Recall.

With Total Recall, you take the dead player's loot (weapons/deployables/ammo) instantly after they die. For balancing, redeemers with this skill will no longer recieve redeemer weapons(duo deagles/crossbows/pistols).

Total Recall II will allow you to also absorb that player's pre-wave buffs(banholder, fit, ect.).

Total Recall III will allow you to move slightly faster for 15 seconds and not absorb that player's returns(palsy, banned for life, ect.).

Edited February 6, 2019 by welchnome

[Snowyamur]

Quote

An idea for a zombie skill that would be nice is something I call, Total Recall.

With Total Recall, you take the dead player's loot (weapons/deployables/ammo) instantly after they die. For balancing, redeemers with this skill will no longer recieve redeemer weapons(duo deagles/crossbows/pistols).

Total Recall II will allow you to also absorb that player's pre-wave buffs(banholder, fit, ect.).

Total Recall III will allow you to move slightly faster for 15 seconds and not absorb that player's returns(palsy, banned for life, ect.).

I wouldn't remove the player being able to earn the akimbo pistols or crossbows because those are unique to Redeemers. I would say keep that, but make Total Recall do exactly what you entailed above; just don't remove akimbo weapons on redeem.

A lot of players that volunteer as zombies try to redeem for the redeemer weapons, and taking them away is going to upset them, so let's keep them.

[Fume Knight]

Can't do it, we all know what happens when you do something like that.

[Snowyamur]

Quote

Can't do it, we all know what happens when you do something like that.

@Fume Knight

What do you mean "we all know what happens?" I said above that this would be virtually impossible without a larger development team, so I was aware before-hand how this would play out. But I threw this idea out there for the purpose of creation, not to make a junk post.

[TheDarkDevilRo3]

We already have cards and if we add skill tree people will become more overpowered imagine having all the gun skills and a max level tier 6 weapon 

[Kritzinho]

Instead of this complication tree, we could get a single EXP to increase levels, and have a point distribution system

Strength: Strength and melee related traits

Constitution: Resistance and health related traits

Dexterity: Mobility and speed related Traits

Intelligence: General weapons related traits/Cading

Carisma: Points discount ressuply related Traits

Wisdom: Healing related traits/trait slots

 

And traits would need a X amount in its primary attribute to be usable, and also have trait slots, maybe 2 slots to start at a maximum of 6

actually its almost the same thing but.. You get it huh ?

[Snowyamur]

Quote

We already have cards and if we add skill tree people will become more overpowered imagine having all the gun skills and a max level tier 6 weapon 

@TheDarkDevilRo3

That's why I haven't been designing specifics until I know how you guys think of this idea. It's going to be a rocky start for this idea at first, and I can see the high chances of things becoming overpowered against the zombies, but that's why we have @Lady Luck's designed skill tree above in this thread, alongside me trying to work towards balancing out the traits that would end up as part of this idea.

Also, you're assuming things that aren't there yet. Yes, I did mention that in the Combat Tree, overall damage would be improved across the board, but that damage increase might be minimal and in the form of another stat, like attack speed or clip size. Instead of improving the base damage, I would instead improve the DPS because that way, a low-tier weapon wouldn't turn into a one-hit-kill weapon, and that's my overall goal with these skills.

Another thing is that T6 weapons have a restriction. You've been on our server long enough to know that T6 is only unlocked when the last 5 - 10% of humans remain alive in a round, and sometimes by the time zombies breach a cade, that number is reached, but there's no cade left to hide in, so all humans end up being dead.

 

Quote

Instead of this complication tree, we could get a single EXP to increase levels, and have a point distribution system

Strength: Strength and melee related traits

Constitution: Resistance and health related traits

Dexterity: Mobility and speed related Traits

Intelligence: General weapons related traits/Cading

Carisma: Points discount ressuply related Traits

Wisdom: Healing related traits/trait slots

 

And traits would need a X amount in its primary attribute to be usable, and also have trait slots, maybe 2 slots to start at a maximum of 6

actually its almost the same thing but.. You get it huh ?

@Kritzinho

This is practically the same thing I designed, but this system sounds similar to how Fallout 4 handles its perk system, in which the player levels up, they get a skill point, and they can allocate that point into any tree of their choice. One problem I would have with this is how much control the player would have over what traits of which tree they wish to invest in. If you go by a system whereby investing X trait points will result in you getting a trait automatically, with trait selection out of the player's control, then that's where control is bad. But, if you make it where the trait can be enabled or disabled before Wave 1 actually starts,  and players can allocate trait points into a tree to unlock the traits for use, then it would play out similar to how traits currently work in-game, and this would be a great take on perk control, and I will include that in the write-up.

One thing I like about this idea is having trait slots to limit how many traits a player can have, and that is something I didn't think about and will consider when thinking more on this idea. This will certainly limit which traits a player can have in any of the three trees I mentioned, and this could be the balancing factor for the idea, but I have yet to figure out what could be done about this.

To be honest, my idea is crunched into three general trees; yours is crunched into six, so in actuality, your idea is slightly more complicated than mine, but includes components that aid with the "balancing factor" of my idea. I could make it where under my three general skill trees, there are branches with traits that fall under that branch, and if any of those branches are invested in, the others become locked, for balancing reasons.