Global Homophobia Rule?

[ASCII]

In my tenure homophobia was never allowed and the CS community was were saw the biggest backlash when HG got tuff on the subject. So I remember at the time that private channels like tables in TS, and anywhere privacy was expected, we would not govern speech, as some of us don't mind engaging in provocative subjects. 

[Fred.]

In response to Seymour

 

It's not something to joke around with though and regardless of either of our opinions on how offensive one word is over another it's offensive nonetheless which should be unacceptable. People being free to talk how they want in HG is people being free to talk shit in HG publicly, it's the same thing, HG rules don't apply to PM as far as I'm aware and if they are I doubt they're enforced very much unless it's pretty awful, so if they want to talk shit with no respect for minorities they should do it there. I don't want to take away peoples right to share their opinions and such, I just want basic respect to be expected.

 

In response to ASCII

 

HG has two divisions that currently don't allow homophobic slurs at all and it has had no negative impact to my knowledge. I don't have a problem with use of it in private discussion either, only when it's in public channels and the likes.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Fred.

[Fred.]

Peacemaker-

 

I've stated a few times that the slurs are being used in normal conversation outside of direct disrespect and harassment, as far as I'm aware it can't be treated under those rules. If it could I don't see why we'd need the racism rules in each division. Correct me if I'm wrong, sure hope I am - If use of the slurs is disallowed in every context under those rules then I think people should know about it as it seems unclear.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Fred.

[Fume Knight]

We don't need to decrease the amount of people in HG, because that's literally exactly what will happen, not to be rude but its almost guaranteed

[Benz]

So I am not going to engage in any kind of debate or argument on this subject, but I will give my take on it. Racial slurs and homophobic slurs are both the same IMO they are both offensive to most people rather they are gay or a minority. They are discriminating / offensive / disrespectful words. Even if these words are not directed to a gay/minority person it still would make some people feel uncomfortable and they would possibly leave our community or not play on our servers and or not speak highly about us to their friends about us which is not good for us. We should hold a higher standard when it comes to this subject. Our goal is to set the bar high and maintain a great vibe and outlet for young kids/teens to come and enjoy themselves and make awesome friends to game with and talk to. We also want to look out for our current and future population. I can totally understand if people are in a private table channel and these individuals don't have any kind of issues with these words being used and are using them privately then so be it. But if these words are being used privately they should be used with care meaning people should ask if anyone has any issues with these words unless they already know they do or don't obviously. The only thing I would be concerned about as far as those words being used privately is that some teens may have younger siblings that are hearing these kinds of words and I don't think that HG should condone that kind of behavior and be a contributing platform for it. I know this is a very touchy subject as it should be some people will agree with me and some people won't and some people will be neutral which all is fine. We are a community and diversity is expected and inevitable. I do want to say that my opinion as far as In a game or in public TS channels these kinds of words should not be tolerated period. Again my take, and opinion on it, I am always trying to look out for the betterment/growth of our community in the past/current as well as the future of course.

[Fred.]

Fume-

If we enforce it leniantly with multiple warnings then it shouldn't lead to less people unless they're literally trolls or just actual homophobes and neither trolls nor homophobes should be around anyway.

 

Eddie-

I agree completely and I really appreciate the support, if they want to use that language I have no problem with it as long as it's in private, in public however it needlessly offends people.

 

It would be fair to say that HG doesn't have much of a gay community so it's stupid to enforce rules protecting them, but has anyone really wondered why there isn't much of a gay community in HellsGamers? It's not exactly the most welcoming place for them if there's people throwing around that kind of language. It's not going to cause some massive depopulation adding this rule or changing a rule, TF2 and CS:S did it just fine and saw no depopulation, we have two cases where it happened and worked out just fine.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Fred.

[BOSCH]

Okay a few things I want to touch on.

I don't think Fred is saying he is against people making funny gay jokes, he just wants a policy against using straight homophobic slurs like F****T.

The Idea that being gay is a choice, and that people are born that way is ludicrous.

Also touching on the thought that Racist slurs are different to homophobic slurs because gays weren't slaves is laughable. In the 19th and 20th Centuries almost all nations including Western Nations had laws on the books that imprisoned people for being homosexual, showing that they were very much persecuted including during the holocaust. There is also evidence previous to this era showing that homosexuals were persecuted in many different societies.

I do not see how we will loose people or it will affect in-game populations by enforcing this rule is laughable, because when we use the warn/kick/ban policy on slurs like F****T, almost every person asks for forgiveness and to be unbanned and very few times have we ever had to reban someone for such language. We have paid admins who keep an eye for such things and rarely have we ever had a continuous issue with someone using such language.

I also do not think Fred is saying that he is against people using such language in private dialogue. As a community, we should set a higher standard on what is allowed in public settings. As I said previous, if guys or gals want to make gay jokes without malice, that is no big deal, we just don't want slurs being used that are obviously hateful.

Say I go into a Starbucks or any establishment with a friend, and he and I are joking around with one another using the F word without malice, but in the public area there maybe someone who is homosexual hearing us use such language, do you not think that person would be offended? I can assure they will be, same if the conversation was being had between friends using the N word, joking around between one another without malice, and a African-American man or woman hears all this in a public setting, whether we are joking or not they would and have every right to be offended.

This is why I do not believe such slurs should be allowed on public HG platforms, if you want to use that part of your vocabulary in PM's or in a private setting, then no one has a problem with that. With that said, in the public setting we shouldn't. Who knows how many people who may have turned down being recruited into HG because they see/hear such language being used by our members.

Please take all of the above into consideration.
Sincerely,
BOSCH

[RavenR34]

This is different from a public setting though I'd say. Yeah, your example holds truth, but unlike in a Starbucks you can't selectively block out what others may say. On the servers, if someone says something that offends you indirectly, you can easily mute them clientside and never hear from them again. This is why I said in a previous post there's better ways to handle it. Unless it's targeted harassment, why should a moderator have to step in? Saying a slur or offensive word offhandedly isn't a good thing, and yes, if someone else is offended they have every right to be so, just as I feel others have a right to not care and the individual has a right to say such words. Blocking someone's speech selectively if it offends you, rather than silencing the person altogether despite others perhaps not being offended, isn't the way to go, IMO, unless of course it becomes direct, targeted harassment. Otherwise no one is encouraging it or asking it to happen, only allowing others the right to do such things if they wish, and to also allow others the right to ignore such things if they wish.

Edited March 18, 2019 by RavenR34

[BOSCH]

@RavenR34 We are not blocking peoples overall speech, we are only talking about slurs, which we already do community-wide for racism and anti-Semitic slurs. With those slurs we use the warn/kick/ban rule, so we are not blocking something that offends us, but because it is a slur we are protecting others who play in our servers.

[Admiral MacK]

Raven,

The disallowed use of homophobic slurs is to prevent ones who take offense to it from having to hear and argue about it. This creates a more friendly atmosphere for everyone who is a Member/Participant here at HG. Multiple people who have responded in this thread, not calling names, but are going on their own personal view on the usage of the word(s). Not only does this portray a horrible image for those who want to join or already have joined HG, but also to see their Leadership members using a word that literally has always been an insult to whomever directed at, and immaturity of the user. This is not restricting someone's speech capabilities either; disallowing not even a hand full of words that have no meaning besides the disrespectful describing of a person who probably came here in hopes of avoiding this occurrence to go through it again. I respectfully see no reason for anyone to use homophobic slurs on any occasion. I personally feel that those who think that it should not be prohibited, are basically saying that any slur can be used and gotten away with. Because when we compare racial slurs to homophobic slurs, they are the same meaning but in different categories. Yes, one is considered severely more consequential if used, but that is because race is much more visible than homosexuality.

In logistical terms speaking on behalf of the longevity and public figure of HeLLsGamers and through my own personal involvement and experience, uninhibited use of homophobic slurs only shows immaturity of HG in a general viewpoint. 

We have to remember, this is not a personal attack to people who are careless about the word. This thread was created to better the integrity and public figure of HG and anyone in relation to it. You must think of what is best for the community and what will expand it to a potential that it didn't have a week ago or a month ago. You can't spell Community without Unity, and that's what we need to retire this thread. Some need to be more open minded, some need to chill on the grammatical terms used, and some need to grow up and see the real picture here. If this was a true Community, we wouldn't be needing this thread. Because in our Community Guidelines, usage of slurs that can offend individuals is a prohibited offense. By needing actual discussion on this subject shows childish amounts of respect for a group of people who wish to be accepted. If I took offense to those words, and they had little to no restrictions, I probably would not be where I am now in HG.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Admiral MacK

[BOSCH]

I would like everyone to refer to a rule posted community-wide by Homer
 

" Variations of the n-word are not allowed in the community. Derogatory terms of people's race, religion, nationality, or phenotype are not allowed as well as sexual orientation. e.g. the word fa**ot. Please refrain from using that type of language, especially in a malicious manner. Admins, please exercise punishment with discretion based on severity of the variations used. e.g: "

[Fred.]

Homer has never backed down on that rule to my knowledge and no position of power supersedes Homer,  this rule should be enforced based on that thread as it's still pinned and was updated in 2015 so it's clear that it was still wanted after 5 years of being posted. Added BOSCH's reply to the original post. There should be no confusion now that it's against the rules.