ttaM Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 See Church, the problem with you having that chat is part of the reason we banned him. Homer asked him to stop passing around chats, to stop E-mailing people, to let it go and maybe we would eventually work him back in. And now you have it. Thanks for helping our cause and showing that even after we told him NOT to do something, he did it anyways. In his own words, DERP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 how mean he barely let clark talk in that conversation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxygen Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 (edited) How'd you get that chat Church? Never mind, ttaM's post makes sense of it. Edited May 23, 2010 by Toxygen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Love Lamp Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 (edited) So now that this is all out here, how about you give detailed explanations and proof of what you mean about his "other side" that you thought was so inappropriate compared to Staff/Council member actions in the past? His "other side" involved: Blatant abuse of rules/admin to give his "inner circle" advantages. Case in point: Threatening to ban people on the GMod RP server after making up a rule that people weren't allowed to steal his car (an integral part of the RP mod, seeing as there is a "thief" class). Continued disrespect of admins/staff/council behind their backs, while giving a sweet smile and asking for things to their face. Case in point: Asking me for extended powers on SourceBans and other places, while at the very same time telling others how worthless he thought I and other staff/council members were. Constant "name dropping" to attempt to coerce people into doing his bidding. Case in point: Slaz wanted bhopping removed in Jailbreak, even going so far as to try to get it removed from all our other servers. When told no initially, he took it upon himself to demand that Crosshair (the one writing/updating SM scripts for our servers) create an anti-bhop mod on the servers, stating that "all the staff and council want it done, so do it now". This, of course, was a complete fabrication, as we told him the exact opposite previously. He's used this one quite a bit, to get people banned, admin removed, etc. We only recently found out the extent to which it was carried on, and are attempting to rectify all the damage done by it. I'm simply asking a question here, but it seems to me that every time people try to address problems with Staff/Council/Very long-term members, the "complainer" gets told to stfu and drop it. Then if they continue they get banned. This is the equivalent of a farmer in a kingdom in the middle ages addressing the problems of how the king/royal house rules and suggests they do things better, then him being beaten in the alley and told to quit speaking slander or be severely punished. Then when he decides to not let this injustice continue, he makes public speeches about the OBVIOUS "evil" of the kingdom's rulers then gets thrown out (banned) of the kingdom with nothing, or killed (banned). I know you love analogies, but please keep them simple, my eyes are bad enough as it is. >.> Anyways, it's quite the opposite. I've never banned anyone for stating an opinion, and never plan to do so. If you see any staff trying to do otherwise, please contact me. However, please remember, there is a difference between stating your opinion and demanding your opinion be the right one. I've seen many accounts of staff/council members banning people for trying to address issues with they way they run things, even if it is a little "eccentric". Even though it's such a silly thing and doesn't need to go that far. I'd like to see some proof of us banning someone just for an opinion. Like I stated previously, there is a difference between stating your opinion and forcing it on others. We are not ancient Rome, we like to keep our forums martyr free. I'm not saying that Slaz didn't do the things you're saying, but I doubt it's as bad as you say it is. Personally, I think you just make it sound like he was cursing your names in the dark and spreading stuff around because you took it personally and wanted to make a second big example of people who call you out on the bad dealings you sometimes make. Let me make that "sometimes" part clear. It's as bad as we say it is. We aren't exaggerating. It was an ongoing issue before we even made him Jailbreak Warden. We had hoped that after being given the Warden position he would be satisfied with molding it. However that was not the case for long, and it did not take him long to go to his devious ways. In fact, it got so bad, we coined the term "Slazervention", which was essentially a talking to to him stating that he needs to calm down, and not talk trash behind peoples' backs. As I stated many other times so far, we have no problem with people stating opinions. However, we retain the right not to agree with them. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but if you have the right to an opinion, we do too. And on the "taking it personally" thing which was quoted from my, erm..."argument" with DJ2, it IS in-fact, personal. All of it. If this is truly "just the internet" and we shouldn't take it personally because it's not that big of a deal, why does HG make money from it? Why do the staff/council pay their own hard earned money to keep it afloat? It's not THAT big of a deal! Not like it's their own PERSONAL money! lol of fucking COURSE it's serious and personal. You're right, in some respects it is personal. In fact, that's WHY we made this decision. I think the problem is that everyone is under the assumption that we just one day decided to ban Slaz off the face of the earth for no good reason. That isn't the case. We've worked long and hard attempting to cope with his way of doing things, and try to show him that his behavior is inappropriate at times. After months and months of failed attempts, we decided that the Jailbreak Warden promotion wasn't going to work out, so we went with the only option left, to remove him from it. After promising that he understood and said everything was alright, he immediately went to his devious ways, slandering staff and council, and others, insulting us for removing him, which essentially solidified our resolve in our decision of removing him. Don't give me that "internet is srs bsns" sarcasm BS. The internet is OBVIOUSLY serious business or people wouldn't be making/paying money on/to it would they? Doesn't that fit the definition of a business? A revenue for a service? I think so. "This thread is here because the HG community deserves to know the reasons for why we lost a good member and a great asset. I hope you can understand. Thank you." The reason you lost a good member and a great asset is because you made the decision to lose him. Come on seriously? You're making it sound like he wanted to be banned for trying to address problems with staff/council. You banned him because of they way he went about addressing problems which is just silly. I think a good old saying can be applied here. We didn't fire Slaz, Slaz fired Slaz. We didn't ban him for addressing problems with us. We banned him because after we disagreed with his opinions, he took it upon himself to slander us because our views differed from his. Again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but humility needs to be involved here. Sometimes, we aren't right. It's something we have to deal with from time to time. Many times we agreed with his judgment and let his plans continue as he set them. However, the problem was when we disagreed, and instead of accepting the disagreement, he raged out and talked about how inept we were for disagreeing with him. Point here is Slaz took it a little too far with what he had to say, and you took it a little too far by stripping him of his powers/rank, and then banning him later for being mad about it. When we initially removed his powers, he came across very clearly with us as being fine with it. To our face, he accepted it with grace. However, shortly after telling us he was fine with it, he began to spam staff and council members with how big a mistake this was and how much HG could be harmed if he decided to leave. We don't take kindly to threats, idle or not. We have a storied history of people attempting to strip our clan down for their own selfish reasons, and we refuse to cave into them. My 2c, but some of you may think I have no right to comment on something like this because I was banned for a similar instance. And it's pretty rude that you make a thread about someone without giving them a chance to defend themselves in front of their peers. That's just a common courtesy. Courtrooms of legal law allow it, why not you? Just let members take your lack of enough proof and your reason for the decision to heart without question? Seems a little......corrupt to me. You have every right to comment on this. Everyone does. I just want to make sure everyone knows the whole story. If you look at Cactus's thread, it's glaringly obvious he has only heard Slaz's side and has decided that is the right version. This thread was simply a courtesy to the community informing them about the how and why of our decision to remove slaz. This thread was not made to be a trial of any sort. We do not wish him ill, or anything like that. We simply feel that his actions have proved that he does not have the best interests of the community in mind. Also, lack of proof? Ask staff members sometime the kind of messages and emails slaz would send to them. We simply posted the nicer things he has said, because we don't want to slander him. Also, a courtroom differs just a tad bit from an online community. We do not have an unbiased jury at the ready to determine anyone's fate. And we will not let this turn into a popularity contest. Again, like I said, we simply made this thread as a courtesy to the community explaining the how and why of the events that transpired. If anyone needs any further information, please feel free to contact me. I can't guarantee I will divulge everything (this is to protect both sides), but I will explain as best I can. And Church, for the love of god, make shorter posts. My wrists hurt. Edited May 23, 2010 by ttaM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 wtf is this essay shit lamp ugh i hate readinz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Love Lamp Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 wtf is this essay shit lamp ugh i hate readinz I hate writing it more than you hate reading it. However, I like to clear things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxygen Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Woah Lamp, that was an awful lot of reading. Good points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 i cleared it up with that post you edited on the first page. we wouldnt be having this arguement then if you didnt do that AMIRITE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Church Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 As bad as my eyesight is, I love reading, and you shouldn't complain about reading on the internet when you can ONLY read things on the internet. (aside from the obvious voice chat programs) Thank you for breaking down my post and replying to each part Lamp. I read it all and it's very enlightening. I'm a good friend of Slaz's, but as much as I'd like to do what that guy you mentioned did and ragequit because of this, I'm not stupid and I understand what happened. I agree with all of your points and I see both sides of the story. It was a decision best for the community I agree. Also, sorry for the long posts xD I'll make sure to put a tl;dr version at the end next time. ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 read on the internet fuck that text to speech that shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Love Lamp Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 I'm just saying, wheres the freedom of speech? What if hes actually trying to do some good for the clan? Is it time for change? oh well, I still love slaz <3 Yeah, church I agree, people with power tend to cover things that they did wrong up, but was it really necessary to just ban him? You couldn't of demoted slaz first? He was a senior member, and here for quite some time, so I don't understand staff's decision. We allow freedom of speech. However, we won't let the clan get torn apart based on one person's ambitions. I realize staff and council are "the man" and as such are immediately distrusted, but we handled this situation as openly and honestly as we could. We did demote Slaz first. I see that he may have "accidentally" left that part out for you. We relieved him of his Warden position about a week ago. When we approached the subject with him, we gave him our reasons, and he accepted them. We even told him that maybe after a short break, we could find a place for him back on the moderator circuit. We just felt that, at this point in time, that he was increasingly agitated for little or no reason, and that a large chunk of the community felt that he was losing his touch in the Warden department. After reviewing popularity statistics of the server, we felt it was a correct assumption. So, after thoroughly explaining to him why our decision was made, he seemed to accept it. However, not very long after, he was was PMing staff and council constantly, to the point of spam, that this was a wrong decision, and that if anything happened to him power-wise, HG would probably regret it, which was no more than a thinly veiled threat. Now, I'm not sure how familiar all of our recruits are with our storied past, but due to our large nature, HG has attracted a lot of attention from people who feel that they deserve more than they are given by us, which usually turns into threats, followed by attacks on our servers/community. We have been forced at this point to essentially accept a "zero tolerance" policy for things like that, because if we don't take them seriously, bad things could (and will) happen. So, at the point of Slaz telling us "give me my position back or I'll make sure people leave/do bad things" we decided enough is enough, and, rather than let it fester and boil over at a later date, we would take of the situation now. And that's where we are now. In this room. On the internet. /book 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttaM Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 GREAT SUCCESS. Where would we be without you Church? I wouldn't have a youtube video with 1K+ views that's where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 is this gonna be a trilogy lamp. cause it sux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Love Lamp Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 is this gonna be a trilogy lamp. cause it sux I hope not. I'm pretty sure I covered all the points. The audiobook will be out this fall, voiced by Sara Palin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Church Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 GREAT SUCCESS. Where would we be without you Church? I wouldn't have a youtube video with 1K+ views that's where. Aww how sweet lol. But I hate that video so much. It makes me look like an unfair dumbass when I was just speaking (as forced calmly as I could) out of anger. I like to think I've matured a lot more since then and I watch that video with a red face of self embarrassment and facepalming at certain points. Other points I agree with myself but only slightly. Oh well. Anyone want some caek? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttaM Posted May 23, 2010 Author Share Posted May 23, 2010 It's okay. My favorite part is when DJ rages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaincracker Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 My videos are better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdh Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 I miss church Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 i miss gambino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fdh Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 i miss cerpin taxt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never trust a hippie Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Maybe we can all move on like mature people. Slaz said some things that I'm sure he regrets. Overall Slaz did good for the clan so he shouldn't be demonized. The decision was made so we can do what we do best without apology, which is provide the best server's and gaming experience as possible. Right now the Jailbreak server is full. I think it's doing really well lately. Maybe the change with the way things are being played there are working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ2 Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Someone explain why did we let church back? seriously, he is still incapable of having a rational discussion and should go back to the land of "homo's we forgot about" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeman Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 I miss canadian ninja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Church Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Someone explain why did we let church back? seriously, he is still incapable of having a rational discussion and should go back to the land of "homo's we forgot about" lol DJ thanks for actually READING ALL of my posts and not calling me some form of derogatory sexual preference name in the process. Appreciate it. ;P /sarcasm ' lol cmon DJ gimme a chance without being mean to me please. Also, I miss Lex Talionis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bort Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Someone explain why did we let church back? seriously, he is still incapable of having a rational discussion and should go back to the land of "homo's we forgot about" DJ, i think u missed >> this post << I know you two have a bit of history but all he's doing is speaking his mind.. Plus he's not unreasonable to talk with :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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