Cards suggestions

[Old Bill]

General Roasterrock legendary card

 

+30 Health

+75 Armor

OR

 

+15 Health

+30 Armor

 

Seeing that the general is a human boss but not team threatening like how Nightmare and Tickle monster are to the human team, I think it would not be big problem if it becomes a rare card with reduced status but I will leave the final decision for the ones who will implement it

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Medical Kit rare card

+0.5 health

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Turret rare card

+0.5% faster scan

+0.35% faster firing speed

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by Old Bill

[F00L]

Even tho I already suggested both of these but for the Roasterrock I suggested an rpg and mini gun card if I'm correct and the same idea for med kit. Yet I gotta give props on the idea of +25 health and + 50 armor, this doesn't sound too op and too underpowered and could actually be added into the server. Lets hope others agree to see this happen.

[Old Bill]

It is not, i mean even if you make it +50 health and +100 armor it would not. General Roaster Rock never wins it is just a last resort for fun so even if he lasts few seconds longer he will eventually die however having it the way I put it will make more agree and thanks f00l

[Jareth26]

Yeah, having Minigun, RPG, and Jugg cards sounds good.

Anything for a medkit card is good. I personally was thinking cooldown reduction, but flat heal increase works too.

[Snowyamur]

Yes for the Medical Kit card, no for General Roasterrock.

The point of cards is to have upgrades, and usually, having upgrades is nice when one is trying to win. Yes, I'm aware that even with upgrades, humans still continue to lose, but they put up a better fight, and winning is always possible on any map played. Same goes for zombies. While zombies win most of the time, having upgrade cards helps them win, and they put up a stronger fight.

What's the point of upgrading a feature designed solely as a last-stand moment when it's loss is inevitable? Sure, it adds to survivability, and people could argue it adds to a fun factor because being able to upgrade GR makes him harder to kill, but the fun of being able to play GR doesn't change with upgrades. Honestly, having the GR upgrade card available would only serve as a point-sink, and the entire card system is a point-sink already, so it's a waste to add.

[Old Bill]

And we always forget that the true purpose of playing games is having fun, Mr.@Snowyamur if we argue using your input then why do we have GR in the first place if it is loss is inevitable, I mean let us remove it since it is point farming just as the upgrading system is point sinking. Do you see what I mean right now? I mean it is just one legendary card that most of people will not get and only will be upgraded twice by many, as first level costs 5000 points and the second costs 15,000 points, but then after that 50,000 points and above are so crazy that one would rather focus on other cards, to sum it all up it is okay to increase the fun because that is the point of the game in the first place.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Old Bill

[Hugin&Munin]

I like the idea of both cards, especially the medkit. Upgrading the medkit could also allow perhaps more profit to be gain? So far healing people doesn't profit like it used to, with this card, this can change a little. Perhaps of just having the "medkit" card, we could add a Medic Card in general, that levels up how much you can heal with every medic healing tools. Exemple:

Medic Card : +1 Medic pistol / +1 Medic Rifle / + 2 MedKit / +2 Healing gun (values here are just an exemple)

Nonetheless, I like his idea.

[Uni]

Like the idea, but I would like it if the medkit card gave +2 HP, sounds more reasonable to me at least.

[Snowyamur]

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And we always forget that the true purpose of playing games is having fun, Mr.@Snowyamur 

People have used this argument against game developers many times, and I'm a game designer, and I'm going to tell you that this is a very weak argument.

I'm aware that games are meant to be designed and played for fun, but when thinking about how to design and add to a game to make it better, which in many ways include making it more fun, it's important to think about what adding to a game makes the most sense or not to add onto the fun factor. We aren't going to add just about everything people suggest on this Forums because if we did, our version of ZS would be poorly-broken and poorly-designed that the fun is ruined just from how broken it is.

 

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if we argue using your input then why do we have GR in the first place if it is loss is inevitable

Because General Roasterrock is a nice little incentive for players to survive to become an unstoppable enemy for zombies despite losing at the end. It's a way of saying "Last Stand, but go out in Style," and people who've become General Roasterrock have had lots of fun killing zombies instantly and just being able to tank and last much longer than a normal human player. In the past, when a player was the last human standing, it was boring and lame because there wasn't anything special about it. Now that we have GR as an option, being the last one alive is special in its own way. 

It's an update added to the game to make being the last one alive fun and more interesting, and it's balanced such that even though you have 1k armor, a minigun, and RPG, you're the only human left against dozens of zombie players, all of whom could go as different zombie types to kill you, and you're the main target left. You're a lone wolf against many, and the odds are all stacked against you.

 

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I mean let us remove it since it is point farming just as the upgrading system is point sinking.

You're missing the point if it's only pointfarming you see as valuable out of being General Roasterrock. Granted, I've had fun profiting as General Roasterrock, but I've had more fun being chased by the entire server as the only living human left, who's become an abomination of a tank with insta-kill weapons, slow movement, and heavy armor. Even though you didn't here, if you proposed removing GR because people use it for pointfarming, let's remove ZS entirely because everyone on this server pointfarms, which will never happen.

 

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I mean it is just one legendary card that most of people will not get and only will be upgraded twice by many, as first level costs 5000 points and the second costs 15,000 points, but then after that 50,000 points and above are so crazy that one would rather focus on other cards

Right, and because of this, and given that being GR is not always guaranteed, what's the point of adding this card? Keep in mind that all of our cards make sense for the game and affect gameplay in different ways, i.e. putting up a better fight to win, because what humans and zombies upgrade will always be available to them, and they could always select their weapon or zombie type respectively as they choose and are able to, all of which are upgraded. 

Unlike GR where it's RNG to become GR, with the RNG coming from your chances of dying or surviving, weapons and zombie types are 100% available guaranteed under special circumstances dictated by the game itself, and that makes upgrading those more worthwhile than upgrading something you won't get all the time.

 

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to sum it all up it is okay to increase the fun because that is the point of the game in the first place.

Yes, and the point of the game is to design it in a way that makes sense so the fun shows. Adding a GR card with the stats you provided to be upgraded for 5000 points is a huge waste, and no one's going to get it, making it pointless to add. This kind of mechanic that you provided also has nothing to do with the "fun" factor because it doesn't change your gameplay in any way: you're still going to lose, you have the same weapons, and you can't always get GR guaranteed. Maybe it makes you about 0.07% stronger, but even that's wasted.

If you made it where the card added special attributes, maybe that with Level 1, GR gets another weapon, or Level 2, they can activate a perk every few seconds that does something different from what he does now, that's different. But for this, it's another excuse to add content that's piling on scope-creep.

[Old Bill]

Thanks for your detailed reply @Snowyamur but first of all about this part

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You're missing the point if it's only pointfarming you see as valuable out of being General Roasterrock. Granted, I've had fun profiting as General Roasterrock

I am not actually seeing it as only point farming it is just you started with saying that the card is a waste of point so I used the reverse and said then why don't we say that GR in the first place is point farming thingy, but in reality I enjoy GR for what you stated in the following:

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but I've had more fun being chased by the entire server as the only living human left, who's become an abomination of a tank with insta-kill weapons, slow movement, and heavy armor. Even though you didn't here, if you proposed removing GR because people use it for pointfarming, let's remove ZS entirely because everyone on this server pointfarms, which will never happen.

I do see GR the same way too and even if you were to disable points earning as GR I would still thrive to get it, just the idea of it is one of the reasons I'm staying in HG ZS and that is exactly the reason why I want it to have a card, every second of playing as him is so special even you said so, so having the chance to play it even a second longer is my point here, don't you want to have the chance too?

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Right, and because of this, and given that being GR is not always guaranteed, what's the point of adding this card? Keep in mind that all of our cards make sense for the game and affect gameplay in different ways, i.e. putting up a better fight to win, because what humans and zombies upgrade will always be available to them, and they could always select their weapon or zombie type respectively as they choose and are able to, all of which are upgraded. 

Unlike GR where it's RNG to become GR, with the RNG coming from your chances of dying or surviving, weapons and zombie types are 100% available guaranteed under special circumstances dictated by the game itself, and that makes upgrading those more worthwhile than upgrading something you won't get all the time.

I do see your point above, even though it is true that RNG makes it not available every time but that does not differ so much from tier 6 weapons, they have their cards and they are limited, even in some rounds you don't even get the chance to get them so they are not always "available" another proof is in objective maps people fight to get those weapons so again we see here that you don't always "benefit" from the cards which means if we use your logic about waste of points then you did "kind of" waste your points here because they are not "available" every time, actually getting GR most of times can be easier than getting tier 6 weapon. Let us not forget in most cases the more humans there are the harder it is to be the last human which also applies to tier 6 weapons, the more humans there are the harder they are to get.

 

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Yes, and the point of the game is to design it in a way that makes sense so the fun shows. Adding a GR card with the stats you provided to be upgraded for 5000 points is a huge waste, and no one's going to get it, making it pointless to add. This kind of mechanic that you provided also has nothing to do with the "fun" factor because it doesn't change your gameplay in any way: you're still going to lose, you have the same weapons, and you can't always get GR guaranteed. Maybe it makes you about 0.07% stronger, but even that's wasted.

If you made it where the card added special attributes, maybe that with Level 1, GR gets another weapon, or Level 2, they can activate a perk every few seconds that does something different from what he does now, that's different. But for this, it's another excuse to add content that's piling on scope-creep.

I never thought of that, if you have such amazing ideas then why don't you support the topic with these thoughts because you did state how fun GR can be so maybe you could have suggest how we can make the card better just like what you said above, as long as GR have a card, not necessarily one that gives him more health & armor I'm fine with that, I am just looking to make GR more playable in any way.

 

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Lastly, one more thing about the card being "point-sinking", no one is forcing you to upgrade the card if you really don't believe in getting GR or don't see it useful then just don't do it. I mean Wendigo is a legendary card and we are all sad about it and find that funny wondering why as Wendigo is not supposed to be a powerful boss more of runners killer but those who don't see that the 5000 points is worth it just don't do it and you don't upgrade all of your cards that is normal.

 

[BOSCH]

GOTTA CATCH EM ALL, GOTTA CATCH EM ALL!!!

[Jareth26]

@Snowyamur Why should it be your decision on what others spend their points on. If a person wants to upgrade their Jugg, then they should be able to.

If people want to "waste" their points upgrading the Jugg card, that is their loss, not yours.

 

I also like the idea that upgrading the Jugg adds weapons to his arsenal. That would add quite a bit of variety and fun.

[Skyrunner]

Actually I would like this med kit would be an op card tho

[Old Bill]

@Skyrunner

I agree, I think making it +1 health for every 2 levels would be fair, like if the level number is even then it increases by one.

[welchnome]

I like increasing the rate of heal for medkit and I would like to see that get added.

I would really like to see turret upgrade cards too, but instead increase ammo capacity and HP

[Biohazard]

medkit card is something I really want but I feel like faster cooldown might be kinda op?

[Old Bill]

@Biohazard Yeah I thought about that as well, either it will be removed or make the cooldown just a little bit faster like very little just like how other some weapons have -0.04% faster reload per upgrade, you get what i mean?

 

Edit:

Increase of 0.5 per level will be enough, every two levels it increases by 1. Which means even if you max the card you will have maximum of 4 only as rare cards have a cap of level 8

Edited July 7, 2019 by Old Bill