Snowyamur Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) Most people that play on ZS know how common it is for humans to lose on objective maps. As of now, it's not a funny thing to laugh about anymore because, for me, I feel like humans should be winning more, but there are four reasons as to why we don't win objective maps as often as we should: most of the players on our server nowadays are relatively new there are Kleiner filters on all objective maps that are unfamiliar to new players, so they die by "accident" lack of team cooperation in-general and specifically people join our server during an ongoing objective map at the wrong time For starters, Reasons 1 and 2 are not necessarily horrible because if players are new to our server, of course their chances of dying on an objective map are higher because they might get lost or die to an environmental hazard they didn't know about beforehand. Reason 3 is the greatest reason as to why humans lose objective maps most of the time, and something like that is difficult to change, but Reason 4 is something we can change, and from what I've seen, this has been a leading reason behind Reason 3 as to why humans lose. Whenever the objective map starts, there's usually only about 12 - 15 zombies, unless of course players are dumb enough to get themselves caught and die in the process. However, let's say no one dies during the first "wave" of the objective map, and it starts like normal following the intermission. All of a sudden, about 4 - 6 players just join out of nowhere, and they become zombie because they missed the beginning "wave." Now we have to deal with about 18 - 20 zombies, and that only makes survival chances lower. Next thing you know, another 5 players join, now it's up to 25, etc.; you get the idea. Basically, I propose that unlike regular ZS maps, on objective maps, should any player join within the first 2-3 minutes after Intermission, they will be placed on the human team. By doing this, we're giving humans a better shot at surviving because they don't have to deal with this sudden increase of zombies by people just joining the server late. Additionally, for those who are late and missed intermission, they can hop on and try to survive alongside the humans, giving them the experience of enjoying the objective map and a reason to stay rather than just leave. However, this is only the case so long as they arrive before the 2-3-minute timer ends. Edited February 21, 2019 by Snowyamur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F00L Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 I have two sides for this topic. One side is telling me that, yes this idea is genius and allows late joiners to get to be human again and increase the chances of wins on obj maps. While the other side that I side with the most is a big no, how this idea is bad to some extent. Winning obj should be very VERY hard imo, that's what makes winning it enjoyable and 100 times better than the idea were going for right now. Maybe make it so that the first 10-15 minutes of the map people will be assigned to human team? And then it will be zombie. I can see adding this for late joiners, but definitely not for the entire duration of the map. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kritzinho Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Agreed with F00L the idea is good but we must not count for the entire map time, we dont want people joining at the end and win just because they entered lol, i think the first 10 min is great for every obj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamDakota Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 I agree with @F00L winning obj should feel like an achievement and for that to happen all of the humans need to work together and not troll each other like what has been happening. But we don't want to make it to easy for humans to win tho. So maybe first 5-10 mins of map if somebody joins late they get to be a human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowyamur Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 Based on what @F00L said, now I'm starting to agree with him. I guess I was just frustrated with losing too early into objective maps that this just came out as some irritated urge. Let me revise how this integration should go: On objective maps, players can join and be placed on the human team before and during Intermission as usual. Following Intermission, for the first 10 - 15 minutes, any new player that joins our server on the first entrance (they load into the map or join the server on the first try), they are automatically placed on the human team. At any point should they crash or leave and return on the second try, they will become a zombie. If they join 10 - 15 minutes after the Intermission, they will become a zombie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamDakota Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Yea that sounds all good to me, gives humans a better chance at surviving with more players joining but no too much so that map gets too easy. Also doesn't give a bad taste in people's mouths joining for the first time on obj. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowyamur Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 It would also make it so that people that do join a few minutes late still have a chance at playing the objective map while on the human team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Although unrelated, I think the zombie team should start out with only bots, gradually earning players on the undead team. This would remove the sometimes random decisions made by either Ground Level, Distance from Zombie Spawn or even Random Choice. When a batch of humans are picked, it is bound for someone to rage-quit simply because they didn't want to be a zombie. By having a designated team of bots, all the blame if you die or disconnect is on you. And once a human dies, the bot is removed from the server, vice versa, if the human who died then leaves, the bot rejoins. This would keep the median amount of zombies in the undead team the same, regardless if people decide to ragequit. This would also allow for cades and defences to be built up at a faster rate, eliminating the fear of becoming a zombie when you may have been the only person willing to cade. The bots aren't weak either, they (For some scary reason) have very clever AI, playing differently with each class and boss, making the experience feel more unique for the first few waves or so. This bonus would end at the beginning of Wave 2 or 3 as not to allow people to join on the later waves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowyamur Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 I would say yes to the bots, but that requires pathing on the objective maps. Are paths already established for bots for objective maps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 @Snowyamur (Assuming you meant my comment :D) Probably not, but I wouldn't imagine it being that hard to path, especially since most obj.'s are linear in design whereas survival maps can have multiple cade / hideout locations for humans, leading to more strenuous pathing times for anyone involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonderland Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 I personally think it should be the same as regular zs maps.. you join as a human as long as its within the first 2 or 3 minutes after the start.. I see it every map that people wait a minute or two before rejoining the server to bypass being picked as a zombie.. next time your ingame watch the influx of people after the wave starts its usually 25% or more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowyamur Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 Quote Probably not, but I wouldn't imagine it being that hard to path, especially since most obj.'s are linear in design whereas survival maps can have multiple cade / hideout locations for humans, leading to more strenuous pathing times for anyone involved. Difficulty for objective map AI pathing is up to the developers and programmers. I leave it to them to decide whether this is a possibility or not @Genuline, but it's good to work in favor of the players and prevent ragequits upon being zombie. Quote I personally think it should be the same as regular zs maps.. you join as a human as long as its within the first 2 or 3 minutes after the start.. I see it every map that people wait a minute or two before rejoining the server to bypass being picked as a zombie.. next time your ingame watch the influx of people after the wave starts its usually 25% or more I've been aware of the influx of people that join what's considered "at the right time," @Wonderland, but that doesn't apply to all players. Some of the players that just happen to join at the right or wrong times happen to be players that are either very new to our server, or aren't so new and are still learning the ropes for how to play on our server. Whether they are new or not, it doesn't change the general number of players that join our server at the wrong time with an ongoing objective map, and their numbers increase the zombie horde to the point that it's unfair for the humans. As a human playing an objective map, I would think it a poor circumstance in which we start off with 10 zombies, and that number jumps to ~25 over the course of the objective map, even when little to no one died. I will pay more attention to the influx of people you mentioned, but I don't think timing the server-join is not something most players on our server do. Maybe the veterans, but not the new people. As for your idea to set the auto-human join to how normal ZS works, I would say that would work, given that just now, I thought about how long objective maps could be, and a 10 - 15-minute window before joining as a zombie is way too long. Thus, shortening it would suffice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevinyock Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I am in favor of having a bot zombie team on the basis that when we get people picked as zombie they either ragequit or just afk and that is not really fun if you get 10 zombies and half of them just ragequit/afk so you have to deal with 5 zombies instead of 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I am fine as long as this doesn't give humans a free win just for joining when the team pretty much won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowyamur Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 Quote I am fine as long as this doesn't give humans a free win just for joining when the team pretty much won. @Talbot That's the reason I'm in favor of @Wonderland's idea to make this timer akin to how ZS works when players join. Make it so that within the first 2-3 minutes after Intermission that any player that joins at that point becomes human, and after that duration, any player that joins will be a zombie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonderland Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 @Snowyamur Right on!.. 2 minutes and 30 seconds should be more than enough time for those still loading/downloading map to join and still enjoy the map.. I talked to some people the other day.. And they were unhappy constantly joining as zombie as it takes them longer to load than most people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowyamur Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 I can only hope this will change @Wonderland. It's a small fix, but it'll make the general server population happier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F00L Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Now lets hope forrest sees this and add it into the server Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowyamur Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Update Added the 2-3-minute timer as the limit for when players that join after Intermission can become human, as suggested by Wonderland. Updated info. explaining the benefits for the timer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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